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Europa League: Matchday 5 - FC Astana vs Man Utd

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10 hours ago, Canto said:

We might aswell close the academy so seening as Liverpool and City don't bring through many youngster lads, forget our tradition of doing it and who cares if we miss out on someone coming through we can just spend 100 million on them down the line. Where have I said it's the way to success? I'm not saying these lads should be relied on to be starters you mad cunt or there going to lead us back to the glory days but they have enough talent to push for squad places and for some to be in the first team in a few years.

Forgive me if I take your opinion on the level of the academy with a pinch of salt because you obviously don't know what's going on about it and don't care you've probably read an article and decided that everyone else is miles ahead of us now. Again I'm not saying these lads or the youngsters are what are going to be what get's us back to where we want to be but keep spouting that shite but what should happen is the talented youngsters who show they're capable of playing at the required level are intrigutied with what's there already and more signings. Exactly you don't have patience and that's the problem with you and most modern fans if a young player isn't performing at a Mbappe or Messi level they're shite and not good enough while forgeting Ronaldo would of got the exact same shit that Rashford gets now if social media was as big as it is now back then. Basing it off one game or limited time in the first team and you already know that they won't be good enough pack in the journalism and become a scout pal.

Yeah it is embarassing but we're excatly where we deserve to be because that's where our level of performances have been for the past 6 years by and large and we have no devine right to be in the champions league we have to earn it.But we deserve to be here it's as simple as that, the players have failed time and time again at least now with this manager we're phasing the players who have let us down time and time again out and building a younger and hungrier squad but unfortunately as you've already said you don't have the patience to wait so it's just going to be the same cycle over and over again of firing a manager and the same players getting more chances failing new manager sacked. Gomes and Gardner says all you need to know what you know about the youth players haha. 

Not this shite? You've never seen most of them play before today, probably never even heard of them. Funny you name Rashford as a genuine talent becuase he get's more abuse then most on here and online from people like you who don't have any patience. Let's be honest you don't watch the u18s or the u23s now and you certainly didn't watch it back then.

I'm not buying anything I don't watch any press confrences or post or pre match interviews everything I say is based on what I see with my own two eyes. If anyone is talking shite it's you Dave.

But Liverpool don't have any youngsters I thought??????

Anyway I'm done replying, i'm not spending my night talking to someone who has decided every single youth player we have is shite based on one European away game and making out that i'm saying there the saviours of the club.

 

Not many, most have been sold and the manager sacked. Most have been involved in winning 12 out of 14 games at u23s level though including wins against 3 senior mens teams in cup competition.

those 14 games have been in the U23 second division though, right? The cup competition results have been great.

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6 hours ago, O said:

McTominay was used more by Solskjaer last season than Mourinho. He wasn't used as often as 2017/2018.

Rashford has been our best player this season. Without his end product, we'd be in the relegation zone.

That’s not what he said though. So this is all null.

 

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8 hours ago, O said:

Was actually brought through by LvG you obese fuck. He was forced on Mourinho.

If you don't enjoy any aspect of the club, then just quit following you simple cunt. Join Aardvarked in Aus and get out of that shithole you call home. Won't cure your obesity, but might help with your mental health.

You actually want these players to fail. It brings you joy. Still butthurt over Mourinho. Thankfully Mourinho will be ruining the career of Troy Parrott instead of Greenwood's.

I'm in London now mate

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When did we become such Arsenal fans over a loss?

The way you lot are arguing you'd think we'd just lost a Champions League Semi-Final by playing kids or something, fucking bizarre mentality.

We've been spoilt most of our adults lives and now we're acting like babies cause we didn't win an essentially nothing game which involved extreme temperatures and travel with the crowd and starting line up of a pre-season friendly. 

Bit pathetic really. 

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1 hour ago, ALF said:

When did we become such Arsenal fans over a loss?

The way you lot are arguing you'd think we'd just lost a Champions League Semi-Final by playing kids or something, fucking bizarre mentality.

We've been spoilt most of our adults lives and now we're acting like babies cause we didn't win an essentially nothing game which involved extreme temperatures and travel with the crowd and starting line up of a pre-season friendly. 

Bit pathetic really. 

We are 9th in the league. Closer to the relegation zone than the top 4. This is not just one loss, it’s a continuation of unacceptable shite.

Arsenal are ahead of us in the league, performing better in their Europa group and just made their move. We’re showing less ambition for a club notorious for lacking ambition. Everyone has to go starting with the manager who is so far out of his depth it hurts.

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2 hours ago, ALF said:

When did we become such Arsenal fans over a loss?

The way you lot are arguing you'd think we'd just lost a Champions League Semi-Final by playing kids or something, fucking bizarre mentality.

We've been spoilt most of our adults lives and now we're acting like babies cause we didn't win an essentially nothing game which involved extreme temperatures and travel with the crowd and starting line up of a pre-season friendly. 

Bit pathetic really. 

This post is so far off the mark it’s not even funny.

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1 hour ago, TheManc said:

Tbh our fans being so relaxed and accepting of mediocrity is partly why Ole is still in the job. Arsenal fans pushed Emery out.

Tbf things wont ever change. We're just not a demanding club.

 

Both United and Liverpool are generally patient, loyal fans. We are clubs that have been lucky to have long terms managers shape the entire history of the club. With that comes tradition and a set of ways. Whether right or wrong.

Busby and Ferguson. Shankly, Paisley and Dalglish. 

The only ill feeling towards ex Liverpool managers are with Souness and Hodgson. And with United, it's probably Sexton and most definitely Moyes.

Our managers are averaging 2 seasons post Ferguson, so that is changing big time. All 4 managers will have been hounded out of the club by the time Ole is sacked.

Arsenal fans are the laughing stock of English football and Twitter. They act like they're a bigger club than they are. They are the 3rd biggest in England traditionally. But haven't been relevant since about 2008. 

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8 minutes ago, O said:

Both United and Liverpool are generally patient, loyal fans. We are clubs that have been lucky to have long terms managers shape the entire history of the club. With that comes tradition and a set of ways. Whether right or wrong.

Busby and Ferguson. Shankly, Paisley and Dalglish. 

The only ill feeling towards ex Liverpool managers are with Souness and Hodgson. And with United, it's probably Sexton and most definitely Moyes.

Our managers are averaging 2 seasons post Ferguson, so that is changing big time. All 4 managers will have been hounded out of the club by the time Ole is sacked.

Arsenal fans are the laughing stock of English football and Twitter. They act like they're a bigger club than they are. They are the 3rd biggest in England traditionally. But haven't been relevant since about 2008. 

A big part of why Arsenal fans are like they are is because the whole club is in a mess due to hanging on to Wenger for too long tbf. 

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11 minutes ago, TheManc said:

A big part of why Arsenal fans are like they are is because the whole club is in a mess due to hanging on to Wenger for too long tbf. 

Well, they made the change. They brought in a younger, more relevant manager who had a good track record at Valencia, Sevilla and managed big players at PSG. It's what they craved.

And now look. Worse than Wenger! He was winning back to back FA Cups and finishing 2nd in the league while being finished as an elite manager.

I wouldn't go near the Arsenal job if I were a manager with a reputation right now. Too many players need to go. Özil, Xhaka, etc. 

They're best off going down the Brendan Rodgers route. Give it to Eddie Howe and see how he fares with less expectation. They'll probably have to sell one of Auba/Lacazette and try to rebuild with Saka and Martinelli who have done very well for 18 year olds.

Edited by O

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1 hour ago, MrSwellman said:

This post is so far off the mark it’s not even funny.

Why?

I'm settled with the fact we're terrible and i openly get annoyed at frustrated about it but that game was worth nothing, already qualified moaning about it just makes people look like fucking babies. 

3 hours ago, TFIA said:

We are 9th in the league. Closer to the relegation zone than the top 4. This is not just one loss, it’s a continuation of unacceptable shite.

 Arsenal are ahead of us in the league, performing better in their Europa group and just made their move. We’re showing less ambition for a club notorious for lacking ambition. Everyone has to go starting with the manager who is so far out of his depth it hurts.

Never denied that, to echo my point above moaning over a game which was essentially in a pre-season friendly setting just seems a bit pathetic, Arsenal level. 

It was more fun to watch the youngsters than anything. If we play badly against Villa then i'll be pissed, United aren't going anywhere decent fast, we're on the Liverpool 90 - today path, nothing for years, it's cool all i'm fussed about is us playing some entertaining Football and i won't disagree a lot of the time that aint happening, but last night was a nothing game. 

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7 minutes ago, ALF said:

Why?

I'm settled with the fact we're terrible and i openly get annoyed at frustrated about it but that game was worth nothing, already qualified moaning about it just makes people look like fucking babies. 

Because very few of the arguments I’ve seen have actually about the result. It’s more the youngsters clearly aren’t as good as some would have you believe and basically Ole is attempting to sell us a pup. It’s an effort from a Glazer stooge to paper over the cracks regarding the lack of investment last summer. I, for one, have openly said i’d prefer we didn’t even bother with this muck competition so I’m hardly going to be losing my mind over a meaningless result.

People aren’t moaning about the result like you’re making out but the overall big picture. And IMO, rightly so. A terrible squad, worse youth emerging and an even worse manager led by an inept board.

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17 minutes ago, MrSwellman said:

Because very few of the arguments I’ve seen have actually about the result. It’s more the youngsters clearly aren’t as good as some would have you believe and basically Ole is attempting to sell us a pup. It’s an effort from a Glazer stooge to paper over the cracks regarding the lack of investment last summer. I, for one, have openly said i’d prefer we didn’t even bother with this muck competition so I’m hardly going to be losing my mind over a meaningless result.

 People aren’t moaning about the result like you’re making out but the overall big picture. And IMO, rightly so. A terrible squad, worse youth emerging and an even worse manager led by an inept board.

Firstly, one game mate mostly debutants a Luke Shaw who looks like he's going to have to eat his rivals to get his place back. I don't get to follow the youth around and don't have MUTV so for me it was cool to see them and realistically when has there been a crop of great youth players since the (and i'm frankly bored of talking about and seeing them) Class of 92? Since that group we've had maybe 1/2 decent players who make it into first team football 3 at best every couple of years with a lower success rate. So yeah i'm not expecting too much but its a good experience for the lads. 

As for the rest of it i don't exactly disagree perhaps your sentiments on Ole are a bit overboard I think he has the right idea for the club and Football but i don't think he's the right man to implement it he lacks in many areas i'd still rather have someone with a positive outlook than a sullen faced egotist who plays the happy PR game for a year and then becomes a fucking human storm cloud, 11 men behind the ball at home to Palace, i broke road safety laws to get to that game, fuck that prick he only ever had his own PR in mind. 

The big picture is grim no doubt, i've already read the words 'getting Pogba back will be like a new signing' coming out of Ole's mouth, classic line i bet it's written behind the managers office door at Carrington in Malcom Glazers blood. 

Fuck all this woe is us doom bollocks, we all know its wank and no matter the amount of green and gold avatars and replying #glazersout to the official twitter account is going to change that all i'm bothered about is what happens on the field. Too much negativity at every turn is toxic for everyone, like at Arsenal those cunts wanted the team to loose fuck that shit. 

 

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5 hours ago, ALF said:

Firstly, one game mate mostly debutants a Luke Shaw who looks like he's going to have to eat his rivals to get his place back. I don't get to follow the youth around and don't have MUTV so for me it was cool to see them and realistically when has there been a crop of great youth players since the (and i'm frankly bored of talking about and seeing them) Class of 92? Since that group we've had maybe 1/2 decent players who make it into first team football 3 at best every couple of years with a lower success rate. So yeah i'm not expecting too much but its a good experience for the lads. 

As for the rest of it i don't exactly disagree perhaps your sentiments on Ole are a bit overboard I think he has the right idea for the club and Football but i don't think he's the right man to implement it he lacks in many areas i'd still rather have someone with a positive outlook than a sullen faced egotist who plays the happy PR game for a year and then becomes a fucking human storm cloud, 11 men behind the ball at home to Palace, i broke road safety laws to get to that game, fuck that prick he only ever had his own PR in mind. 

The big picture is grim no doubt, i've already read the words 'getting Pogba back will be like a new signing' coming out of Ole's mouth, classic line i bet it's written behind the managers office door at Carrington in Malcom Glazers blood. 

Fuck all this woe is us doom bollocks, we all know its wank and no matter the amount of green and gold avatars and replying #glazersout to the official twitter account is going to change that all i'm bothered about is what happens on the field. Too much negativity at every turn is toxic for everyone, like at Arsenal those cunts wanted the team to loose fuck that shit. 

 

I think at this point though, if any of these youngsters were potentially important future players for a club challenging for major honours they’d surely be closer to the first team rather than this glorified friendly appearance given out current standing. We are at our lowest point at present, in as long as I’ve been supporting United anyway, and our youth system is evidently not bearing as much fruit as the past.

For example, even the likes of Phil Bardsley, Kieran Richardson, Robbie Brady, Frazier Campbell and the likes of Josh King have carved out decent careers despite not making it here. If you contrast some of the more recent youth players who have emerged in comparison and left it’s easy to see a serious issue among the development and our standards of producing youth aren’t where they were and others have caught up and passed us out.

Let’s take LVG’s bunch for example because it would be unfair on some to castigate anyone under Mourinho and contrast how they’ve gone despite getting game time here.

Jessie Lingard - fuck sake.

Marcus Rashford - the only ray of light.

Paddy McNair - Described by LVG as a potential RB “for the next ten years”. Now can’t make the Middlesborough first team who are 20th in the championship.

Tom Thorpe- Indian Super League.

Reece James- Released by Wigan, now with Doncaster who sit 13th in League 1.

Tyler Blackett- In fairness, seems to be a regular at Reading but again 18th in the Championship.

Andreas Pereira - Aids. Not a chance he’d be within an asses roar of Chelsea, City or Liverpool teams. He wouldn’t make the Leicester squad either arguably or Arsenal. Would be a sub for almost every PL club.

Donald Love - Suffered back to back relegations with Sunderland, now with Shrewsbury Town. Dreadful. Shrewsbury lie 12th in League 1.

Cameron Bortwick-Jackson - Loans at both Wolves and Leeds terminated early. Now on another loan at Tranmere who currently sit 20th in League 1.

TFM- only god knows what’s going on here.

There are others but my god, it’s beyond a joke.

I’ll make no apologies for not being bowled over by the supposed next crop or listening to Ole’s rubbish about youth when he’s more than happy to sit there and let the Glazer’s dictate. Things turned sour with Mourinho because he rightfully castigated the rubbish he had to field.

McTominay and Greenwood look about the only certs at present who will make it here and most of the rest probably won’t be good enough to take us where we want to be. So we’re looking at another bunch for the scrap heap. These are facts given by examining of how few young players make the breakthrough to top sides at present. You have to be a genius and insanely talented. These guys aren’t, so unfortunately Thursday was an absolute waste of time.

The lads who started on Thursday don’t look like it to me. Long gone are the days our academy was churning out and we were discarding genuine PL players.

It’s easy to bad mouth Jose but he’s been still comfortably the best manager we’ve had since SAF. Doom or gloom around doesn’t seem to matter because Ole’s sunshine and lollipops approach doesn’t appear to be yielding better dividends.

Sometimes you simply have to be negative. There is no point pretending things are all hunky dory. We cannot and must not accept mediocrity and to me, Thursday night merely further illustrated that we are more than happy to do so at present. 

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We do always overrate our youngsters. And not only that but the gap between youth football and the first team is so huge that even dominating the youth levels is often rendered meaningless once they get promoted. I don't watch academy games anymore but I used to around 08-12 and we've always hyped them too much. There's always 2-3 players in every youth season that the fans are convinced will make it. 

I think Ole and the club have done a very good job hiding behind this "plan" for the future and part of that is accomplished by hyping up the youth players. Look at a guy like Greenwood for eg - brilliant predatory instincts but in the first team I think he's looked quite poor technically and is quite slow as well. I don't think you can improve those areas too much, yet we see people comparing him with RVP? C'mon. We'll be lucky if he reaches Chicharito level IMO, and i'll be happy with that as well. He and Tuanzebe will be the ones to 'make it' in the same way Evans and Welbeck made it for us. 

Edited by TheManc

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57 minutes ago, TheManc said:

We do always overrate our youngsters. And not only that but the gap between youth football and the first team is so huge that even dominating the youth levels is often rendered meaningless once they get promoted. I don't watch academy games anymore but I used to around 08-12 and we've always hyped them too much. There's always 2-3 players in every youth season that the fans are convinced will make it. 

I think Ole and the club have done a very good job hiding behind this "plan" for the future and part of that is accomplished by hyping up the youth players. Look at a guy like Greenwood for eg - brilliant predatory instincts but in the first team I think he's looked quite poor technically and is quite slow as well. I don't think you can improve those areas too much, yet we see people comparing him with RVP? C'mon. We'll be lucky if he reaches Chicharito level IMO, and i'll be happy with that as well. He and Tuanzebe will be the ones to 'make it' in the same way Evans and Welbeck made it for us. 

Your opinion on Greenwood is very odd. Very TheManc.

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1 hour ago, O said:

Your opinion on Greenwood is very odd. Very TheManc.

Not really, Chicharito was really, really good for us in 2011 and 2013. It's not a criticism of him, I'm just saying that I think Greenwood is more him than a RVP, level wise.

Edited by TheManc

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10 minutes ago, TheManc said:

Not really, Chicharito was really, really good for us in 2011 and 2013. It's not a criticism of him, I'm just saying that I think Greenwood is more him than a RVP, level wise.

van Persie hadn’t even made his debut for Feyenoord at the same age. Nor Rashford for United.

He’s miles ahead of where he should be. Already has 4 goals to his name in a very up and down squad with poor leadership. That reflects well on him.

I actually think Greenwood is still adjusting to his extra height, as he’s grown a bit over the past year. He’s no poacher.

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8 minutes ago, O said:

van Persie hadn’t even made his debut for Feyenoord at the same age. Nor Rashford for United.

He’s miles ahead of where he should be. Already has 4 goals to his name in a very up and down squad with poor leadership. That reflects well on him.

I actually think Greenwood is still adjusting to his extra height, as he’s grown a bit over the past year. He’s no poacher.

Different players progress at different rates but I'm basing it off what I see with him on the ball. I don't see someone who looks like he can hurt you outside of the box at this level and it's not really something you can improve too much, regardless of how he looked against the U20s and below. I even saw people on redcafe saying he'll reach Harry Kane level which is just crazy to me. 

I'm not concerned about his goalscoring. I'm not actually concerned that he won't make it - a striker on Chicharito's level would be the best striker we've produced in PL history. I'm just saying he's getting overrated hype IMO.

Edited by TheManc

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6 minutes ago, TheManc said:

Different players progress at different rates but I'm basing it off what I see with him on the ball. I don't see someone who looks like he can hurt you outside of the box at this level and it's not really something you can improve too much, regardless of how he looked against the U20s and below. I even saw people on redcafe saying he'll reach Harry Kane level which is just crazy to me. 

I'm not concerned about his goalscoring. I'm not actually concerned that he won't make it - a striker on Chicharito's level would be the best striker we've produced in PL history. I'm just saying he's getting overrated hype IMO.

It would take at least 50 senior games to properly assess a player.

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