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THE BASTARD

Neville interviewed by Stan Collymore

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funny how he said the worse thing he could have done at Valencia was to give all the players a (clean slate approach ) he knew 3 players were overweight,and 2 others were toxic, and said any manager thats says this is naive mistake made because he was new to management. he also said he`d phoned fergie for advise,and got told you know what to do.

where else have we seen this clean slate approach ?

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26 minutes ago, Albert Quixall said:

How many of Fergie's former players have made it as managers?  Bruce has made a decent living but I'm  damned if I can think of another one.

Hughes albeit he’s as hated as any manager around. Strachan has been hit and miss.

Blanc if he counts. That’s about it. Phil doing a meh job with the women.

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Its actually a rare occurrence that great footballers go on to be top managers.   Busby. Shankly. Paisley. Clough. Fergie. Mourinho. Wenger. Van Gaal, and countless more successful at managing but were mediocre at best as an actual player.

Guardiola was a great player but he was handed a ready made platform at Barca.  Guaranteed literally a title win or second at worst. And at Bayern exactly the same.   He's done a great job at City but it wasn't ever going to be that difficult with the endless funds he had at his disposal.      Its hard to nail down  a manager in the last 20 years or so that has built a club from next to nothing and gone on to be very successful.

I don't know what to make of Zidane's  time at Madrid.  Did he build a team?  Was there one already there?  3 Champo's on the spin is obviously brilliant.  But their league form was relatively poor.

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7 minutes ago, THE BASTARD said:

Its actually a rare occurrence that great footballers go on to be top managers.   Busby. Shankly. Paisley. Clough. Fergie. Mourinho. Wenger. Van Gaal, and countless more successful at managing but were mediocre at best as an actual player.

Guardiola was a great player but he was handed a ready made platform at Barca.  Guaranteed literally a title win or second at worst. And at Bayern exactly the same.   He's done a great job at City but it wasn't ever going to be that difficult with the endless funds he had at his disposal.      Its hard to nail down  a manager in the last 20 years or so that has built a club from next to nothing and gone on to be very successful.

I don't know what to make of Zidane's  time at Madrid.  Did he build a team?  Was there one already there?  3 Champo's on the spin is obviously brilliant.  But their league form was relatively poor.

It's rarer but more common than you think.

Trapattoni, Capello, Heynckes, Beckenbauer, Cruyff, Ancelotti, Koeman, Rijkaard, Guardiola, Deschamps, Luis Enrique, Zidane, etc.

All had a very successful playing careers at the highest level and also achieved big things in management.

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7 minutes ago, O said:

It's rarer but more common than you think.

Trapattoni, Capello, Heynckes, Beckenbauer, Cruyff, Ancelotti, Koeman, Rijkaard, Guardiola, Deschamps, Luis Enrique, Zidane, etc.

All had a very successful playing careers at the highest level and also achieved big things in management.

But how many of them learned their trade in lower leagues and went on to manage and be successful at bigger clubs.  Most of them were literally gifted a runners up spot at worst.   Deschamp won a world cup but at Juve and Marseille he was a disaster.  Rijkaard  apart from a decent spell at Barca was a failure at Galatasaray and as the Saudi Arabia manager.     So I suppose its how and what you gauge "success" on.

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58 minutes ago, THE BASTARD said:

Its actually a rare occurrence that great footballers go on to be top managers.   Busby. Shankly. Paisley. Clough. Fergie. Mourinho. Wenger. Van Gaal, and countless more successful at managing but were mediocre at best as an actual player.

Guardiola was a great player but he was handed a ready made platform at Barca.  Guaranteed literally a title win or second at worst. And at Bayern exactly the same.   He's done a great job at City but it wasn't ever going to be that difficult with the endless funds he had at his disposal.      Its hard to nail down  a manager in the last 20 years or so that has built a club from next to nothing and gone on to be very successful.

I don't know what to make of Zidane's  time at Madrid.  Did he build a team?  Was there one already there?  3 Champo's on the spin is obviously brilliant.  But their league form was relatively poor.

Clough wasn't mediocre. Scored tons of goals before injury finished him at a young age.

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29 minutes ago, THE BASTARD said:

But how many of them learned their trade in lower leagues and went on to manage and be successful at bigger clubs.  Most of them were literally gifted a runners up spot at worst.   Deschamp won a world cup but at Juve and Marseille he was a disaster.  Rijkaard  apart from a decent spell at Barca was a failure at Galatasaray and as the Saudi Arabia manager.     So I suppose its how and what you gauge "success" on.

Deschamps won trophies with Marseille and got Juve promoted by winning Serie B. He also took Monaco to a CL final.

Wining La Liga twice and The Champions League would be deemed successful. He took Barça from a terrible time in the early 00’s and rebuilt them.

19 minutes ago, Albert Quixall said:

Clough wasn't mediocre. Scored tons of goals before injury finished him at a young age.

He played his entire career in The equivalent of The Championship though?

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2 hours ago, TFIA said:

Hughes albeit he’s as hated as any manager around. Strachan has been hit and miss.

Blanc if he counts. That’s about it. Phil doing a meh job with the women.

Hughes has blown hot and cold. Managed City, which is about the pinnacle of his career to date, and did all right at Blackburn.

6 minutes ago, O said:

Deschamps won trophies with Marseille and got Juve promoted by winning Serie B. He also took Monaco to a CL final.

Wining La Liga twice and The Champions League would be deemed successful. He took Barça from a terrible time in the early 00’s and rebuilt them.

He played his entire career in The equivalent of The Championship though?

The old 2nd Division with Boro and, if memory serves, Sunderland. Even so, his scoring record in very impressive and it's unfair to call him mediocre.

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14 minutes ago, Albert Quixall said:

Hughes has blown hot and cold. Managed City, which is about the pinnacle of his career to date, and did all right at Blackburn.

The old 2nd Division with Boro and, if memory serves, Sunderland. Even so, his scoring record in very impressive and it's unfair to call him mediocre.

Not saying he was mediocre, but it’s bizzare that nobody took a punt on him like they do these days. He’s basically the Dwight Gayle/Billy Sharp/David Nugent of that era.

Gary Lineker also started off in the Second Division, and so did Teddy Sheringham.

Edited by O

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29 minutes ago, O said:

Not saying he was mediocre, but it’s bizzare that nobody took a punt on him like they do these days. He’s basically the Dwight Gayle/Billy Sharp/David Nugent of that era.

Gary Lineker also started off in the Second Division, and so did Teddy Sheringham.

It was @THE BASTARD who called him mediocre. Clough got badly injured before he could make his mark in the 1st Division so I suppose we'll never know, but listening to those who saw him play, he was mustard.

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9 hours ago, Albert Quixall said:

How many of Fergie's former players have made it as managers?  Bruce has made a decent living but I'm  damned if I can think of another one.

How many managers win anything of note, there is only the league and F.A. cup that have any domestic gravitas and sometimes one team will both! and one European trophy of note. People used to slate Wenger for being happy finishing fourth, i'd fecking take fourth now and be happy!

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I suppose it depends how you define made it. Bruce and Hughes have had their moments as managers.

Generally though i think it only makes a small difference having played under a great manager. If you don't have that innate quality as a manager then no amount of courses can change that. All that might give you is the capacity to coach a reserve or academy side.

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