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Jurgen Klopp - From Flop to the Top

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So, on his 3rd attempt he’s finally managed to win The Champions League.

I think we now have to recognise Klopp as the 2nd best manager of this decade, behind Pep.

Mourinho and Pep have reached 2 finals in their career, and won both. Klopp might one day emulate Ferguson with a 2 out of 4 record if he can keep this squad together.

It’s painful to watch, but he’s not the clown many thought he was in 2016. 

His Liverpool side should be used as a reference. That’s how you build a team over 3/4 years. Time for us to start buying the right players.

Edited by O

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Agree that Ole should use what Klopp did as a reference for the re build. All of the below points can be applied to us. Took him a few years to achieve. Very similar to our situation.

1. The year Klopp came in and over the next few seasons he sold/released/loaned out the deadwood. The likes of Skrtel, Allen, Luis Alberto, Markovic, Enrique, Kolo Toure, Flanagan, Klavan, Lucas Leiva.

2. He got rid of the players with poor attitudes/poor mentality. The likes of Balotelli, Sakho, Benteke. Got some decent transfer fees for a couple of them too.

3. Made some money on youth players trying to break in to the first team but just weren't good enough. The likes of Ibe, Wisdom, Solanke.

4. Sold first teamers who wanted out. 'If you don't want to play for us you can go, nobody is irreplaceable' mentality. Suarez and Sterling left before he came in but obviously the Coutinho sale comes to mind. Made £140m there to be reinvested. Emre Can another one.

5. Identified players already playing in the PL with quality and the right attitude. The likes of Mane, Wijnaldum, Robertson, Oxlade-Chamberlain, van Dijk, Shaqiri.

6. Added quality hard working players from abroad. The likes of Firmino, Matip, Fabinho, Keita, Alisson, Salah.

7. Promoted young players that are good enough for the first team. The likes of Jo Gomez, Alexander-Arnold, Origi.

8. Coached and improved most of the above players. None of them were world beaters, even Salah.

9. Held on to the leaders in the team. The likes of Milner and Henderson even though they're not regular starters. Has now added van Dijk to that.

And all of the above achieved with under £100m net spend!

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22 hours ago, O said:

I think we now have to recognise Klopp as the 2nd best manager of this decade, behind Pep.

Do we?

Talking just about this decade, his league record stands to be beaten by a plethora of managers worldwide, and that rings true even if you don't take into account the likes of Juventus and PSG.

His European record pales into comparison to Zidane for example, and his victory over the weekend takes his number of European trophies this decade to just one behind Jose Mourinho. 

In terms of overall trophy collection for the 2010's, I believe that trophy takes him to equal or just over Sir Alex Ferguson, who retired 6 years ago.

He's not a flop by any means, quite the opposite actually he's been a major success so far, but his work this decade doesn't take him to the top. If anyone deserves that claim it's Zidane, who's few domestic honours coupled with three European titles in a row is unprecedented and unlikely to be matched.

 

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6 minutes ago, SimplyGiggs said:

Do we?

Talking just about this decade, his league record stands to be beaten by a plethora of managers worldwide, and that rings true even if you don't take into account the likes of Juventus and PSG.

His European record pales into comparison to Zidane for example, and his victory over the weekend takes his number of European trophies this decade to just one behind Jose Mourinho. 

In terms of overall trophy collection for the 2010's, I believe that trophy takes him to equal or just over Sir Alex Ferguson, who retired 6 years ago.

He's not a flop by any means, quite the opposite actually he's been a major success so far, but his work this decade doesn't take him to the top. If anyone deserves that claim it's Zidane, who's few domestic honours coupled with three European titles in a row is unprecedented and unlikely to be matched.

 

Zidane achieved great things with a great squad. Let’s see if he can rebuild it now.

Klopp turned Dortmund into back to back league winners and reached a CL final with them.

His 2010-2013 is already impressive enough without taking into consideration the past 2 seasons with Liverpool.

Bare in mind that Klopp hasn’t been managing all time greats like Ronaldo, Ramos, Modrić and Marcelo.

Reus is probably the best player Klopp has managed in his career.

I think Sahin and Kagawa sum up Klopp’s ability the most. Top players at Dortmund under him. Now just two average players playing at a decent level. That is a unique ability, to be able to turn players like Henderson into CL winners.

Would like to see Klopp’s record if he had the same resources that Pep and Zidane have been afforded.

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16 minutes ago, O said:

Zidane achieved great things with a great squad. Let’s see if he can rebuild it now.

Klopp turned Dortmund into back to back league winners and reached a CL final with them.

His 2010-2013 is already impressive enough without taking into consideration the past 2 seasons with Liverpool.

Bare in mind that Klopp hasn’t been managing all time greats like Ronaldo, Ramos, Modrić and Marcelo.

Reus is probably the best player Klopp has managed in his career.

I think Sahin and Kagawa sum up Klopp’s ability the most. Top players at Dortmund under him. Now just two average players playing at a decent level. That is a unique ability, to be able to turn players like Henderson into CL winners.

Would like to see Klopp’s record if he had the same resources that Pep and Zidane have been afforded.

Yes he's had a good decade just not the best. 

Madrid had all of those players pre-Zidane and still didn't achieve what they did with him at the helm. I know they had a high valued squad but they barely spent anything in that period either. It's an extraordinary achievement. 

It's a bit of a myth that Klopp doesn't have as much resources. Second most expensive goalkeeper of all time, most expensive defender of all time. Strike force worth well over 100m. Who have they lost out on in terms of transfers? They compete with everyone financially. 

I'm not arguing that Klopp hasn't been a success, I just think you're overrating his achievements slightly. He really needs another league title to compete on those levels for legacy.

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13 minutes ago, SimplyGiggs said:

Yes he's had a good decade just not the best. 

Madrid had all of those players pre-Zidane and still didn't achieve what they did with him at the helm. I know they had a high valued squad but they barely spent anything in that period either. It's an extraordinary achievement. 

It's a bit of a myth that Klopp doesn't have as much resources. Second most expensive goalkeeper of all time, most expensive defender of all time. Strike force worth well over 100m. Who have they lost out on in terms of transfers? They compete with everyone financially. 

I'm not arguing that Klopp hasn't been a success, I just think you're overrating his achievements slightly. He really needs another league title to compete on those levels for legacy.

They didn’t need to spend. They bought the majority of them in 2009 during their biggest ever rebuild. He inherited a team with longevity. Ramos, Marcelo, Ronaldo and Benzema were playing together for a long time. While Mourinho ultimately failed in Europe, they started to reach SF’s regularly under him. A big difference from the Real of 2003-2010. Now Zidane has to try to replace them. Not an easy task.

He had to sell one of his best players in order to sign both those players. That’s good management. Sacrificed the creativity and goals of Coutinho and boosted his defence at the same time. Clubs like Real and City don’t have to sell in order to buy.

Not many clubs have been competing for the signings he made. They were less high profile when he signed them. That’s the genius of it. Robertson is now worth at least €50 million. Mané is now an elite wide forward. Their transfer strategy doesn’t allow them to get into bidding wars over the coolest new toy on the market. But now that they’re European champions, they can probably go for bigger names.

He does need to win a PL. Unlucky for him that he went up against a club like City who have cheated the system.

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10 minutes ago, O said:

They didn’t need to spend. They bought the majority of them in 2009 during their biggest ever rebuild. He inherited a team with longevity. Ramos, Marcelo, Ronaldo and Benzema were playing together for a long time. While Mourinho ultimately failed in Europe, they started to reach SF’s regularly under him. A big difference from the Real of 2003-2010. Now Zidane has to try to replace them. Not an easy task.

He had to sell one of his best players in order to sign both those players. That’s good management. Sacrificed the creativity and goals of Coutinho and boosted his defence at the same time. Clubs like Real and City don’t have to sell in order to buy.

Not many clubs have been competing for the signings he made. They were less high profile when he signed them. That’s the genius of it. Robertson is now worth at least €50 million. Mané is now an elite wide forward. Their transfer strategy doesn’t allow them to get into bidding wars over the coolest new toy on the market. But now that they’re European champions, they can probably go for bigger names.

He does need to win a PL. Unlucky for him that he went up against a club like City who have cheated the system.

Plenty of teams have spent major money and not won a Champions League, not least 3 in a row. 

What he has to do in the future has no relevance to what he's already achieved. There is just no way Klopp has had a more successful decade in management than Zidane, who also has only been around for half of it anyway. 

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On 02/06/2019 at 16:04, O said:

So, on his 3rd attempt he’s finally managed to win The Champions League.

I think we now have to recognise Klopp as the 2nd best manager of this decade, behind Pep.

Mourinho and Pep have reached 2 finals in their career, and won both. Klopp might one day emulate Ferguson with a 2 out of 4 record if he can keep this squad together.

It’s painful to watch, but he’s not the clown many thought he was in 2016. 

His Liverpool side should be used as a reference. That’s how you build a team over 3/4 years. Time for us to start buying the right players.

He's ahead of Pep.

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4 minutes ago, SimplyGiggs said:

Plenty of teams have spent major money and not won a Champions League, not least 3 in a row. 

What he has to do in the future has no relevance to what he's already achieved. There is just no way Klopp has had a more successful decade in management than Zidane, who also has only been around for half of it anyway. 

We need a larger sample size to evaluate Zidane. He’s basically a very good cup manager so far.

The 2016/2017 Real side were excellent. The best in the world. He was only at Real for 4 months in his 1st season and they were awful domestically in 2017/2018.

Solari has been Real’s best manager statistically this season. 

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On ‎02‎/‎06‎/‎2019 at 17:25, Mkhi22 said:

Agree that Ole should use what Klopp did as a reference for the re build. All of the below points can be applied to us. Took him a few years to achieve. Very similar to our situation.

1. The year Klopp came in and over the next few seasons he sold/released/loaned out the deadwood. The likes of Skrtel, Allen, Luis Alberto, Markovic, Enrique, Kolo Toure, Flanagan, Klavan, Lucas Leiva.

2. He got rid of the players with poor attitudes/poor mentality. The likes of Balotelli, Sakho, Benteke. Got some decent transfer fees for a couple of them too.

3. Made some money on youth players trying to break in to the first team but just weren't good enough. The likes of Ibe, Wisdom, Solanke.

4. Sold first teamers who wanted out. 'If you don't want to play for us you can go, nobody is irreplaceable' mentality. Suarez and Sterling left before he came in but obviously the Coutinho sale comes to mind. Made £140m there to be reinvested. Emre Can another one.

5. Identified players already playing in the PL with quality and the right attitude. The likes of Mane, Wijnaldum, Robertson, Oxlade-Chamberlain, van Dijk, Shaqiri.

6. Added quality hard working players from abroad. The likes of Firmino, Matip, Fabinho, Keita, Alisson, Salah.

7. Promoted young players that are good enough for the first team. The likes of Jo Gomez, Alexander-Arnold, Origi.

8. Coached and improved most of the above players. None of them were world beaters, even Salah.

9. Held on to the leaders in the team. The likes of Milner and Henderson even though they're not regular starters. Has now added van Dijk to that.

And all of the above achieved with under £100m net spend!

Not a bad summary that. However, it is either someone else's summary that you found on the net or you know more about Liverpool than is healthy. 🤩

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He's one of the managers I'd have liked to have seen come to united. Unfortunately he wasn't available at the right time. If I'm going to be critical then i think his high intensity managerial style might eventually lead to him wanting to seek fresh challenges elsewhere or a dropping off of his passion for the liverpool job.

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It's some coincidence, which surely couldn't have been foreseen when the great Liverpudlian singer songwriter Ronnie Hilton wrote and had a hit with "A Windmill in Old Amsterdam" which contained the chorus:-

I saw a mouse, where!

There on the stair, right there.

A little mouse with clogs on, well I declare.

Going clip - clippety - Klopp

 

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3 hours ago, O said:

We need a larger sample size to evaluate Zidane. He’s basically a very good cup manager so far.

The 2016/2017 Real side were excellent. The best in the world. He was only at Real for 4 months in his 1st season and they were awful domestically in 2017/2018.

Solari has been Real’s best manager statistically this season. 

I'm not saying Zidane is a better manager than Klopp or will be. You're just comparing managerial performance over a set amount of time, and Zidane's achievements beat out Klopp. 

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I fear that the Champions League win this season is a turning point for Liverpool and Klopp.  If they'd lost, that would have been 7 cup final losses in a row for Klopp (4 in a row for Liverpool.)  Coupled with losing a 7 point lead at the top of the League this season (albeit against a great City team), I think questions would rightfully have had to be asked about their bottle.

It might not have been a vintage year in the Champions League quality wise, but someone had to win and they managed to come out on top.  Even considering it's not the best Barca team, their comeback in the semi-final was outstanding.  Now they've got the experience of winning one of the big trophies under their belt, they know what it takes to win and they'll be hungry for more.

The sad thing is, from the point of view of a United fan, you can't help but look on with jealousy.  Not just because of their success this season or their style of football, but as a starter their attitude, work ethic, commitment and team spirit. There isn't one single player who isn't willing to put in the work required or who sees themselves as being more important than the team.  It should bring shame on us.

Next season will be intriguing in the Premier League.  City and Liverpool's performance this season is so crazy that you would think that they can't possibly be as good next season.  But then you ask yourself what's going to stop them, and it's hard to answer. You would think that Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal and (hopefully!) United will be strengthening and improve next season to put up more of a challenge in terms of one-on-one contests at least.  But then City and Liverpool will be looking to improve as well, and Liverpool have fewer players they need to look to start replacing because of their age than City do.

Disheartening as a United fan though.

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4 hours ago, Shoot said:

Not a bad summary that. However, it is either someone else's summary that you found on the net or you know more about Liverpool than is healthy. 🤩

Had been thinking about it for a while actually. To back up the points with evidence I just found a list of all transfers in and out during the Klopp era, did a little analysis and voila.

I'm not a scouse cunt, if that's what you're implying 😆

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20 minutes ago, RedDevilDazzy said:

What is this thread, praising Liverpool? Go to RAWK, and praise them FFS.

Best go there undercover.

Fuck off you Postman Pat looking prick.

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