Ole Sack Watch

[O 20,624]

25 minutes ago, hdcantona said:

 

Jake Humphrey is an automatic no and you should be banned.

[hdcantona 9,000]

Just now, O said:

Jake Humphrey is an automatic no and you should be banned.

I liked him as F1 presenter - why do you hate him so much? I've not listened to his podcast thing before but it was interesting hearing Solskjaer talk about who he sees as leaders (he names Pogba fwiw) and his failure at Cardiff

[O 20,624]

3 minutes ago, hdcantona said:

I liked him as F1 presenter - why do you hate him so much? I've not listened to his podcast thing before but it was interesting hearing Solskjaer talk about who he sees as leaders (he names Pogba fwiw) and his failure at Cardiff

Horribly arrogant and condescending, and just very smug. BT in general have a terrible group of presenters and pundits.

[CB78 384]

Agreed - no Jack Humphries fan & BT sports (although improved) overall production & pundits are rubbish

but that High performance podcast is brilliant- well worth the listen, insightful.  Robin Van Persie one in particular, haven't listened to Ole yet 

[Albert Quixall 3,867]

On 29/07/2020 at 15:32, Deez Nutz said:

Should be's and the reality of where we are, are two different scenario's, there is nothing to be gained by saying we should be one of the best teams in Europe.

We have a good base to build on, and we know we haven't got an Abramovic or Quatari Backing, so we have to improve incrementally, and that is what's being done, when we stop improving, i'll be the first to demand changes.

We don't need Abramovitch or Qatar. We need the Glazers off our backs. We generate enough money and we always have since the days of Matt Busby. We were a solvent club, beholden to nobody and we suddenly found ourselves in deep debt. From solvency to debt, all because the FA allowed a leveraged buyout that was illegal in the Glazers home country. Doesn't That upset you just a wee bit?

[Mickey Mouse 1,119]

1 hour ago, Albert Quixall said:

We don't need Abramovitch or Qatar. We need the Glazers off our backs. We generate enough money and we always have since the days of Matt Busby. We were a solvent club, beholden to nobody and we suddenly found ourselves in deep debt. From solvency to debt, all because the FA allowed a leveraged buyout that was illegal in the Glazers home country. Doesn't That upset you just a wee bit?

Yes, its upsetting and The FA doesn't help them selves as they did allow various other questionable takeovers such as Abramovich and UAE. No wonder that some UK PMs are now calling for the game to have finacial reset. But where were these PMs when all of these questionable takeovers were happening both with United and elsewere? I don't fault those that were elected after the fact but those that were there at the time and could tell FA to stop all of these takeovers from happening they should be ashamed of themselves now for what the game has become. 

[Mickey Mouse 1,119]

On 28/07/2020 at 19:48, Albert Quixall said:

You'd turn your nose up at the chance of winning the cup to finish eight or nine lengths behind Liverpool?  Trophies are what the game is all about, not winning fuck all, snagging third place, and getting some extra money for the Glazers. Let's face it, we're only in the CL to make up the numbers. We won't be challenging for it.

With the money we've spent since Fergie retired, we should be challenging for the league and the European Cup never mind 4th place. Are we Arsenal now? I know I run the risk of sounding like a broken record but until football and not commerce takes precedence at United, the best we can hope for is top four.

Unfortunetly some pepole dont seems to get what the game is supposed to be about i.e winning Trophies and in England there are only three major honours currently going English Football/Premier League, English FA cup and English Football League cup and if you win one of the the first two or both you can get to play in a glorified friendly called the FA community/Charity Shield.

But unfortunetly I think to many inviduals are now growing up or getting used to the  footballing world were UEFA destroyed the fabric of the game by abolishing the Cup Winners Cup. SO they belive that the Champions League is the only thing that football has going for it. Some some fans around various clubs seems  to think that getting CL football is only thing that matters I have seen fans not be all that intrested in an proper title race as long as their clubs manage "top-4" finnish. Yes my gooner friend who's two years older than me seemed to be happy with that Approch from Wenger when it was starting to occur, when UEFA expanded CL I used to critics him for that and I constantly pointed out that football should be about winning Trophies. I wonder if he is delighted with the FA cup or if he is just pissed that they are far away from CL.

Edited August 3, 2020 by Mickey Mouse

[Mickey Mouse 1,119]

On 28/07/2020 at 19:48, Albert Quixall said:

You'd turn your nose up at the chance of winning the cup to finish eight or nine lengths behind Liverpool?  Trophies are what the game is all about, not winning fuck all, snagging third place, and getting some extra money for the Glazers. Let's face it, we're only in the CL to make up the numbers. We won't be challenging for it.

With the money we've spent since Fergie retired, we should be challenging for the league and the European Cup never mind 4th place. Are we Arsenal now? I know I run the risk of sounding like a broken record but until football and not commerce takes precedence at United, the best we can hope for is top four.

We should be winning the Treble based on the money spent. 

[U4L 227]

Through all the faults of Oles so far up and down reign, whether you agree with signings and money spent. Some things need to be stated. 

1.He has overhauled the playing squad, offloaded the deadwood and underperforming and not engaging players. There's still a lot to go mind, but we finished third nevermind the below par performance of others you can only face what's in front of you. All the first 3 months of the season the media banged on about letting go or getting rid of lukaku. We all knew he needed to go whether or not his goals may have put us in a more comfortable third he was holding back my next point. 

2.he has gotten the best out of rashford, martial and greenwood players we knew had potential but were being misplayed. 

The catalyst might have come later than we liked in Bruno but he's here now and he made a huge difference. 

I thought Ole was done for after Burnley but how things changed. 

[O 20,624]

18 minutes ago, U4L said:

Through all the faults of Oles so far up and down reign, whether you agree with signings and money spent. Some things need to be stated. 

1.He has overhauled the playing squad, offloaded the deadwood and underperforming and not engaging players. There's still a lot to go mind, but we finished third nevermind the below par performance of others you can only face what's in front of you. All the first 3 months of the season the media banged on about letting go or getting rid of lukaku. We all knew he needed to go whether or not his goals may have put us in a more comfortable third he was holding back my next point. 

2.he has gotten the best out of rashford, martial and greenwood players we knew had potential but were being misplayed. 

The catalyst might have come later than we liked in Bruno but he's here now and he made a huge difference. 

I thought Ole was done for after Burnley but how things changed. 

And yet with one of the best defensive records in all of European football and three prolific goalscorers, we were only able to equal last season's tally of 66 points. We scored 1 extra PL goal.

66 points is the 2nd lowest 3rd place finish in the history of a 38 game PL season. Liverpool hold the worst tally, which was 65 points in 1998.

Ole's rebuild narrative and PR team have done an incredible job.

[Albert Quixall 3,867]

19 hours ago, Mickey Mouse said:

But unfortunetly I think to many inviduals are now growing up or getting used to the  footballing world were UEFA destroyed the fabric of the game by abolishing the Cup Winners Cup. SO they belive that the Champions League is the only thing that football has going for it. Some some fans around various clubs seems  to think that getting CL football is only thing that matters I have seen fans not be all that intrested in an proper title race as long as their clubs manage "top-4" finnish. Yes my gooner friend who's two years older than me seemed to be happy with that Approch from Wenger when it was starting to occur, when UEFA expanded CL I used to critics him for that and I constantly pointed out that football should be about winning Trophies. I wonder if he is delighted with the FA cup or if he is just pissed that they are far away from CL.

The FA Cup has turned into a sideshow. I don't know if there's a cash prize for the winning team but it can't be all that much (by PL standards). Not too long ago, it was the prestigious English trophy. Anyone had a chance from the lowliest of amateur sides to the biggest clubs in football. That pot represented glory and, as I've said before, if anyone here has ever walked up the old Wembley Way on cup final day, it was a glory shared by players and fans alike.

United fans, who mocked Arsenal for their top four finish mentality, have begun to adopt it themselves. All this 'cultural reset' bollocks is something I'd expect from Neil Ashton, who thinks we should be grateful for scarping into next season's CL. The Glazers have sucked the soul out of us.

On 28/07/2020 at 07:07, TheManc said:

Tbf why do so many outlets put Lampard and Ole together as young and new coaches? Lampard is in his 2nd season as a professional whereas Ole has been a manager for a decade and had another 3 as reserve team coach. He's probably one of the most experienced managers in the PL.

 

Molde and United. Might as well be Altrincham and United. Bruno saved Ole's bacon.

[CB78 384]

scraping into top 4 at 66 points doesn't really get massive vote of confidence from me-   very lucky to make top 4 with that points total, confirms for me how badly incoming & outgoings have been managed.  Players that came in January should've been here last summer

But, you need luck-  Ole's achieved bare minimum, still chance of winning Europa & earned his right to kick on from here.   Don't see the point of not backing him at this stage, played some decent football last couple of months get the right 3/4 players in this summer UTD every chance of being back in the mix next season

[Mickey Mouse 1,119]

2 hours ago, Albert Quixall said:

The FA Cup has turned into a sideshow. I don't know if there's a cash prize for the winning team but it can't be all that much (by PL standards). Not too long ago, it was the prestigious English trophy. Anyone had a chance from the lowliest of amateur sides to the biggest clubs in football. That pot represented glory and, as I've said before, if anyone here has ever walked up the old Wembley Way on cup final day, it was a glory shared by players and fans alike.

FA Cup has prize money but its not much if football/championship manager games are correct, but I don't remember exact numbers but I do recall it being much lower than winning the league and lower than placement in the league. But Maybe if FA wants improve things they are probably rich enough to up the prize money ten fold me thinks, oh and they could stop having the Semi at Wembley since every fan agrees its shit and re introduce replays in later rounds, but make it optional for teams in same division but madatory for teams in diffrent divisions. FA drooped the balls with desiging the new wembley by having the twin towers removed (if they were dangerous, at very least they could have had them rebuilt from scratch. So there is reason why modern Wembley looks like every other souless modern stadium and feels noting special when you look at it. 

 

 

Edited August 4, 2020 by Mickey Mouse

[JJtheRed 7,200]

Way the team is shaping up with the Sancho signing, that could keep him in the job for a while... 

....Flipside of that is if he can’t win something with that talent at his disposal, the pressure will be immense! 

[JaimeL 315]

I think Ole's done a decent job this season. When you look at the absolute mess Mourinho left us in, there was serious work to be done. There was an awful lot of deadwood (Fellaini, Rojo, Jones, Mata, Sanchez, Lukaku) on massive wages to get out, and so far we're phasing them out of the squad and club quite well (it was Ole who signed on Jones and Lingard, but our squad was so thin we couldn't just get rid of everyone in one go. I really wouldn't have extended Jones given his injury issues, though).

 

We went from a geriatric lineup of Sanchez-Lukaku-Mata up top to the exciting trio of Rashford-Martial-Greenwood. The development of the forward players has been exceptional under Ole - we nearly lost Martial under Mourinho, Rashford was on the bench and low on confidence while Greenwood probably wouldn't have ever seen the light of day.

 

Obviously Bruno was a huge turning point, and one of the reasons we finished so strongly. But he was Ole's signing, someone we'd been after since last summer. Post-lockdown also aligned with almost all of our players coming back from injury (seriously, we were so unlucky with the stretches we lost Martial, Pogba and Rashford for), it wasn't just Bruno that made us a top 4 team. Last summer's transfers were decent too. AWB was badly needed and is improving going forward all the time. I know Maguire isn't popular here and definitely isn't worth £80m - he gets beaten by tricky players far too easily - but he was a big upgrade and is very robust (brilliant in the air at the back and no injuries (a rare boon in our defense)). James is out of form now but a decent squad option, possibly a long term upgrade on Lingard.

 

Our defense gets a lot of flak, but it is the third best in the division, conceding just three more than Liverpool's. The age of our backline is 22 - 27 - 26 -25, so I think we'll see them improve further as the seasons progress if they're held together (as Ole seems to want). Obviously De Gea's been a major issue, many goals we concede being howlers from him, and I think Henderson will be our #1 by 2021.

 

Going forward - our transfers this summer look massive. Sancho and Grealish would be exceptional buys. Grealish for depth would be such a massive upgrade and he has great press resistance, and a front 3 of Rashford-Martial-Sancho with Greenwood in reserve is arguably the most exciting on the planet. IMO we need a long term Matic replacement (or is Ole hoping McTominay will grow into the role?) and Ole has a big keeper call to make (I think we'll get one more year of DDG then Henderson after another loan will be our #1 from 2021).

 

There's a lot to still improve. Ole's in-game management is poor (we rarely recover from poor starts, and it's almost as if he's scared to make subs, they come so late) and we burn out far too easily from overplaying our best XI. But with Sancho on the way and others sure to follow, something very special seems to be building at the youngest squad in the league.

 

I'd give Ole a 6.5 for the season, up to 7.5 if we win the Europa. There's something very good brewing and we're improving all the time. Hopefully, with strong improvements this summer, as well as cleaning out more of the Ferguson-hangover deadwood, we can challenge for the title next season and put together a good CL run, incorporating more of our promising youth in the national cups and some league games.

 

DDG

AWB Maguire Lindelof Shaw

Matic Pogba
Bruno

Sancho Martial Rashford

 

How many teams on the planet are there with first XIs better than that?

 

Even if it all goes to shit next season, we start horribly, are ninth in December and Ole gets the boot, he's still built a phenomenal squad for the next manager, compared to how Mourinho left the team. Seriously - imagine having Perisic, Mata, Young, Boateng, Alderweireld, Sanchez and Lukaku in the lineup, with no Bruno or Sancho and Martial off the books altogether. I hope we never hire a manager that plays dour football again. Picking up a few tinpot cups wasn't worth spending hundreds of millions on garbage and turning the fanbase against some of our best players. Luckily, we seem to finally be moving in a long term direction.

 

I'll be honest, back in December/January I thought Ole was finished, I would have gladly taken Poch on then. But full credit to Ole, his signing of Bruno, development of our attackers and getting players back from injury really helped us kick on. I'm far more excited now than I ever was under Moyes/van Gaal/Mourinho. We're incredibly young (only DDG and Matic are over 30 in our XI), and I'm very excited to see where we end up.
 

[PVAD 4,575]

On 12/05/2019 at 17:27, PVAD said:

My viewpoint is I'd like to give him a chance with a summer transfer window and getting rid of the cancerous no-marks that have blighted this club for years you know who they are. He has to be given this time.

This was my OP to start this thread.

Solskjaer has been given that window and has dumped a lot of the no marks.

He has also been blessed I mean really blessed. We're upto 21 penalties this season in all competitions. VAR has been Solskjaer's illicit lover too. Some some say you make your own luck.

Can it be considered a half decent season?

   * Minimum of ECL place secured 

   *Getting to both domestic semi finals but who remembers semi finals?

   *Potential to win the Europa Cup still.

I'd say for a club like Manchester United post Ferguson you'd say it's about the right expectations, sad as it seems.

What Solskjaer has to do now is weed out the fringe and buy big in key areas this summer. He also has to be careful of man management of key players and not grind them down. Blind loyalty is also something of an achilles heel for him that has to stop!

My expectation next season is the title it always has been for United. Yes we had to accept excruciating mediocre over the last 7 years and counting but next season I believe is a pivotal moment in the history of this club so huge that if they don't win the Premiership it may not happen for many, many years to come. You all know this can easily happen to huge clubs.

Is Solskjaer the right man?

Well at this moment in time he seems to have the respect of the players and board and United post lockdown have been fairly entertaining as well in fits and starts.

The ingredients are there and those together with being backed big by the board COULD be the catalyst the club is long overdue...can he mix and blend those ingredients though....I hope so.

FORZA UNITED!

Edited August 11, 2020 by PVAD

[O 20,624]

I don't rate Ole.

Our style of play is poor after 20 months of Oleball. We don't play like a team that has an identity. It's very much get the ball to our best player and hope he can create something.

Liverpool have set patterns of play such a long diagonals, full-backs overlapping, and Mané & Salah moving into spaces vacated by Firmino.

City are all about overloads and numerical advantages. They press the opposition into mistakes up high and quickly capitalise.

We still don't have a clear game plan.

Our defensive record has improved, but we still don't score enough goals and our points tally was a poor return after the investments made.

I'm in the minority that haven't been won over by Ole.

 

 

 

[JaimeL 315]

4 hours ago, O said:

I don't rate Ole.

Our style of play is poor after 20 months of Oleball. We don't play like a team that has an identity. It's very much get the ball to our best player and hope he can create something.

Liverpool have set patterns of play such a long diagonals, full-backs overlapping, and Mané & Salah moving into spaces vacated by Firmino.

City are all about overloads and numerical advantages. They press the opposition into mistakes up high and quickly capitalise.

We still don't have a clear game plan.

Our defensive record has improved, but we still don't score enough goals and our points tally was a poor return after the investments made.

I'm in the minority that haven't been won over by Ole.

 

I agree with this, Ole's not tactically the most astute. At times, we've set up well against the big sides (especially City this season and Arsenal (FA Cup)  and Spurs away last season), but against a low block (even last night), we struggle. The reliance on moments of brilliance is very obvious - how many times have our front three and Bruno come to the rescue in a dire performance?

As I already said, Ole's done brilliantly moulding the squad, shipping out the deadwood and getting our great young strikers firing. Seriously, the work with the front three has been absolutely brilliant. I don't think we'll ever be a Premier/Champions League-challenging team under him though. He's a great intermediary manager, and I'd love him in the DoF role.

 

He'll obviously get next season. I was quite positive in my last post about Ole and transfers but but Sancho isn't looking at all as confirmed as it was a week ago, and on our bench the quality drops off a cliff. I'd love to see Erik ten Hag come in after him, we've a brilliant young squad in place and someone like ten Hag would really push us on. Look at how bad Liverpool were when Klopp came in - no matter how good your players are, the manager's the most important. It doesn't necessarily have to be him, either - there's lots of young, progressive managers in Europe who would kill for our squad.

 

I don't think we'll win the Europa League; we looked poor last night against a very, very average team (that was the farthest they'd ever gone in Europe!). Inter and even Wolves/Sevilla will prove too much for our exhausted squad IMO. Hopefully we get a long enough break and go into the new season some bit fresh. Ole's done a great job with the squad, everyone's singing from the same hymn sheet and the deadwood is slowly being burned away, it's now down to him to do a good job tactically. Bruno and the front three are helping beat the minnows, we need a coherent plan with more strength in depth from the manager now.

Edited August 11, 2020 by JaimeL

[Ace-7 207]

woodward and the glazers are going to screw Ole over like they did with Jose a couple of summers back

we're the new Arsenal

top 4 is success.

[Albert Quixall 3,867]

5 hours ago, Ace-7 said:

woodward and the glazers are going to screw Ole over like they did with Jose a couple of summers back

we're the new Arsenal

top 4 is success.

That's the truth. It wouldn't matter who the manager was, they'd still be working with their hands tied by some very tight cords. Commercial interests are paramount and trophies a nice bonus but not necessary. Just as long as the money keeps flowing in.

[JJtheRed 7,200]

26 minutes ago, Albert Quixall said:

That's the truth. It wouldn't matter who the manager was, they'd still be working with their hands tied by some very tight cords. Commercial interests are paramount and trophies a nice bonus but not necessary. Just as long as the money keeps flowing in.

Surely a good run at the league and (more importantly?) the CL will be good for exposure/revenue...?

[TheManc 4,058]

3 hours ago, JJtheRed said:

Surely a good run at the league and (more importantly?) the CL will be good for exposure/revenue...?

From a business sense, the difference in prize money between finishing 1st and 4th is far less than the hundreds of millions of pounds it would cost to actually bridge the gap tbh.

The Glazers would be over the moon with a 4th place finish + CL 1/4 final every year. 

 

[U4L 227]

If we lose this semi final again the 3rd this year I worry that Ole is living in the shadow of Poch and we will always be nearly achievers. 

Go all out for RB coach. 

[Albert Quixall 3,867]

17 hours ago, JJtheRed said:

Surely a good run at the league and (more importantly?) the CL will be good for exposure/revenue...?

What @TheManc said. It's a cost/benefit analysis for the Glazers.

 

[aardvarked 11,014]

14 hours ago, TheManc said:

From a business sense, the difference in prize money between finishing 1st and 4th is far less than the hundreds of millions of pounds it would cost to actually bridge the gap tbh.

The Glazers would be over the moon with a 4th place finish + CL 1/4 final every year. 

 

Prize money is not the biggest driver for winning the league and hasn't been for a long time. 

Winning competitions gives you more fans, more exposure and attracts players of a higher profile. This doesn't apply to mickey mouse competitions like the Europa League or League Cup, obviously. 

The Glazers would be far more pleased with a league win every year than 4th place. It's why they've already handed over like a billion in transfers and wages since Ferguson retired, which we've squandered most of.