Sign in to follow this  
butler

Deadwood clearout Summer 2019

Recommended Posts

Mata and Herrera are apparently off..and if true good luck to them..but we are going to need world class replacements for them. maybe Greizmann..Bale..Verratti..Kroos..Rakitic..as an example..

Other than that  Young ..Darmian..Matic..maybe.and as for replacements. Wan Bissaka..Doherty..Coleman..???

Rojo..Jones..Smalling..??.replacements..De ligt..is off elsewherevare rumours..Koulibaly..Alderweireld..??

And maybe a goal poucher of the highest order..Icardi..Dybala

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Cole said:

Young, Smalling and Valencia have to go. Have too.

And whats that going to solve?     That's just putting your finger over the hole in the water pipe.  It isn't repairing the problem.  Nowhere near.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, butler said:

Mata and Herrera are apparently off..and if true good luck to them..but we are going to need world class replacements for them. maybe Greizmann..Bale..Verratti..Kroos..Rakitic..as an example..

Other than that  Young ..Darmian..Matic..maybe.and as for replacements. Wan Bissaka..Doherty..Coleman..???

Rojo..Jones..Smalling..??.replacements..De ligt..is off elsewherevare rumours..Koulibaly..Alderweireld..??

And maybe a goal poucher of the highest order..Icardi..Dybala

The list could be extended for good reasons ,but in other hand I do not expect a long list of incoming players .Don't forget it's against the Fergie's understanding of the transfer politic for decades .Must probably Ole will follow that.

Icardi and Dybala are not a goal poachers at the highest level. Mandzukic is ,but they aren't.  Dybala would be a great signing as replacement of Mata ,but the real goalscorer is missing in United squad. Fergie liked Benzema ,must probably Kroos and Racitic,but United must work how to replace Pogba . Joao Felix (Benfica) is a perfect -young creative ,angry for success . 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

10 hours ago, Cole said:

Young, Smalling and Valencia have to go. Have too.

And Jones. We need a top quality RB (although I think Dalot can be a main stay) a top CB to partner Lindelof, a defensive midfielder (will Fred be that guy who knows..) and a right sided forward. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Heres a big issue for us, buying so called 'like for like' or big names hasn't exactly worked for us since Fergie's years. 

No manager has been around long enough to really attempt to build a team and we've had 3 different footballing philosophies since that, now were on our forth but hopefully the club recognise that they need to learn from the mistakes of the past and build a team with foundations and cement rather than cobbled together we a few expensive fancy bricks hoping it will stay upright. 

As far as i'm concerned most players over 30 can go, might be drastic might cost us in experience but at this point i see a lot of those players as nothing but a easy life on a good wage, i can seldom think of a player at our club over 30 who really fights for his place let alone for the club. 

Ole's project shouldn't be to be challenging for titles next season but it should be to challenge in 2 years and sustain that challenge and consistency. With the players at the club over 30, on decent wages theres no way anyone can justifiably build a squad, Fergie knew that thats why he got rid of Hughes and Ince all those years ago and waiting for Eric to come back and lead the kids to glory.

This summer needs to be drastic, really unsettle any coasting players, let them know they have to step up or they're gone. We need to bring through kids and if there isn't a kid good enough yet we need to buy young and allow them to make mistakes and grow.

I'm quite Ok with United being poor for another season if the signs of rebuilding properly are there then thats fine. 

  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem is we have players for an archaic system, players who have engineered three managerial sackings and a wannabe Perez as our CEO. We need to rebuild by getting rid of players who can't control the ball and bringing in players who are more comfortable on the ball. Once our team is press resistant or can play itself out troublesome situation can we then start dreaming about returning to winning ways. The issue is that we have retained services of players we should be getting rid of and look like losing the players we should be keeping and thats on Woodward's obsession with playing Football Manager with our team.

We have a mish mash of players signed for different styles and most frankly not good enough because we have appointed managers for results without looking at setting up a playing culture. This manager centric recruitment policy has resulted in us spending half a billion pounds on completely unreliable players. We needed to repair this through Woodward ceding control of football operations to a Director of Football but he has gone on to appoint Ole without the input of a that said DoF and we now hear that we have concrete summer transfer plans identified using the same methods that have us reeling from effects of poor recruitment. The Glazers won't rein in their puppet and we are now on a sustained downward spiral especially if De Gea has had enough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, ALF said:

Heres a big issue for us, buying so called 'like for like' or big names hasn't exactly worked for us since Fergie's years. 

No manager has been around long enough to really attempt to build a team and we've had 3 different footballing philosophies since that, now were on our forth but hopefully the club recognise that they need to learn from the mistakes of the past and build a team with foundations and cement rather than cobbled together we a few expensive fancy bricks hoping it will stay upright. 

As far as i'm concerned most players over 30 can go, might be drastic might cost us in experience but at this point i see a lot of those players as nothing but a easy life on a good wage, i can seldom think of a player at our club over 30 who really fights for his place let alone for the club. 

Ole's project shouldn't be to be challenging for titles next season but it should be to challenge in 2 years and sustain that challenge and consistency. With the players at the club over 30, on decent wages theres no way anyone can justifiably build a squad, Fergie knew that thats why he got rid of Hughes and Ince all those years ago and waiting for Eric to come back and lead the kids to glory.

This summer needs to be drastic, really unsettle any coasting players, let them know they have to step up or they're gone. We need to bring through kids and if there isn't a kid good enough yet we need to buy young and allow them to make mistakes and grow.

I'm quite Ok with United being poor for another season if the signs of rebuilding properly are there then thats fine. 

  

There are players who clearly aren't good enough, they may flatter with a solid performance or two but deep down we know that when they are really expected to deliver they shit the bed. Players like;

Jones

Smalling

Lingard

Fred

Young

Darmian

Rojo

Mata

Sanchez

have no business starting matches for United and Ole seems to be developing a blind spot for players like Young, Lingard and Rashford whereby they aren't hooked off or dropped despite being piss poor. 

We definitely need to rattle the cage and get rid of all under performers and like you said buy young and promote our youth. If Pogba wants out then sell him and buy a couple young players from Portugal, we don't need the distraction of keeping an unhappy and uncommitted player, same goes for De Gea. Better to suffer now whilst rebuilding that continue to let the rot spread while we add more expensive players who get infected by the rotten core that we keep.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The major issue that is our constant undoing is our seriously poor strength in squad depth. 

For all Mourinho's faults,  he nailed it by saying that if we want to genuinely compete we have to bite the bullet and pay for it.  Quick fixes come at a huge price.   The days of building a team over 4 or 5 years are long gone.       He was slated for saying that he needed better defenders, and words like that would only unsettle the ones we have.  But he was only being honest, because he was right.

Was he right about Pogba??      Was he right to bench Martial as much as he did??   Woodward went over Mourinho's head and bought Sanchez and Fred.   Neither have worked.

It appears more and more evident that the United job has become the poison chalice of Europe because of the sheer amount of work that needs doing.   And I fear (as predicted) that this is probably the main reason why Ole was handed the job.    Nobody of note would touch us.     We must look a right fuckin cowboy outfit to all the others.    

Manchester United crawling over hot coals to give new contracts to Smalling, Jones, Young.    Yet drag their fat arses when it came to De Gea and Herrera??

Fans at the game last night were kicking off royally because at the end of the game only 5 of the entire squad went over to applaud the away support.  Pogba, De Gea and Martial all walked passed Ole and went straight down the tunnel.    He should be dragging them cunts by the scruff of their necks to see the away fans.     Other fans were also a little frustrated with Ole's comment about him wanting 15 points from the remaining 7 games.   He should be demanding all 21?? 

Ole's got a huge task on his hands. Probably bigger than Van Dross and JVP put together.      Pogba and Martial are allegedly destroyed Zidane didn't come.   Herrera jumping ship and Mata to be farmed out at the end of the season has seriously got Big Dave worried.  He will be thinking that Ander and Juan will be playing Champions league football next season, when he'll be sat on the bench watching Romero in nets against some goat farmers from Uzbekistan on a Thursday night.

Its a fuckin shambles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, THE BASTARD said:

The major issue that is our constant undoing is our seriously poor strength in squad depth. 

For all Mourinho's faults,  he nailed it by saying that if we want to genuinely compete we have to bite the bullet and pay for it.  Quick fixes come at a huge price.   The days of building a team over 4 or 5 years are long gone.       He was slated for saying that he needed better defenders, and words like that would only unsettle the ones we have.  But he was only being honest, because he was right.

Was he right about Pogba??      Was he right to bench Martial as much as he did??   Woodward went over Mourinho's head and bought Sanchez and Fred.   Neither have worked.

It appears more and more evident that the United job has become the poison chalice of Europe because of the sheer amount of work that needs doing.   And I fear (as predicted) that this is probably the main reason why Ole was handed the job.    Nobody of note would touch us.     We must look a right fuckin cowboy outfit to all the others.    

Manchester United crawling over hot coals to give new contracts to Smalling, Jones, Young.    Yet drag their fat arses when it came to De Gea and Herrera??

Fans at the game last night were kicking off royally because at the end of the game only 5 of the entire squad went over to applaud the away support.  Pogba, De Gea and Martial all walked passed Ole and went straight down the tunnel.    He should be dragging them cunts by the scruff of their necks to see the away fans.     Other fans were also a little frustrated with Ole's comment about him wanting 15 points from the remaining 7 games.   He should be demanding all 21?? 

Ole's got a huge task on his hands. Probably bigger than Van Dross and JVP put together.      Pogba and Martial are allegedly destroyed Zidane didn't come.   Herrera jumping ship and Mata to be farmed out at the end of the season has seriously got Big Dave worried.  He will be thinking that Ander and Juan will be playing Champions league football next season, when he'll be sat on the bench watching Romero in nets against some goat farmers from Uzbekistan on a Thursday night.

Its a fuckin shambles.

The funny thing is that it probably doesn't cost as much to actually build a team nor does it take that long but you have to know what you are doing and be ruthless when it looks like its not working. I mean if we bought well e.g picked up 5 good youngish players for around 40 million each we could have a solid,  young hungry team. The key lies in removing the rotten players that have consistently failed and in reducing expectations. Tottenham and Liverpool did well because they have little to no expectations and this gives their manager room to experiment with players like Tripier, Arnold, Gomes etc. We spent the last five years looking for quick fixes and that has resulted in us buying a hundred million midfielder who turns out to be inconsistent as fuck whereas we could have got two with better scouting. Woodward needs to know that we can make any virtual unknown player a marketing God if he performs not to buy players for their marketability.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The major player here in our  dramatic and depressing fall from grace is without doubt Woodbrain.     A Rugby Union loving hooray fuckin Henry bean counter who's only relationship and knowledge of the game is once being a season ticket holder at Anfield.

He masterminded on behalf of the Glazers the take over of Manchester United.   And was rewarded for his handy work the chief exec job when Gill bailed out.   His association with footballing matters at the club should end there.   Unfortunately it doesn't.     Similar to Abramovic at Chelsea, at times he thinks he knows better and has brought in his galactico's over the head of managers.      The Director of football argument has raged at United for some years.   He for obvious reasons has blocked it from day one.

Part of the agreement when Mourinho was sacked was the gagging order of what he could reveal and what he couldn't.  That's pretty much unprecedented in the football world.  But obviously Woodbrain deemed it as very necessary.     So what did he have to hide?

For the greater good of the club and its future, should United not qualify for the champions league next season, then that cunt should resign from his role with immediate effect.    Because that twat has oversaw the club be an utter and complete shambles whilst he has been at the helm.      Ole is going to need all the help he can get,  and more.  But he isn't going to  get the right help with that fuckin gobshite stood over his shoulder.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If it was fantasy, I'd sell/release:

  1. Alexis
  2. Matić
  3. Rojo
  4. Bailly
  5. Jones
  6. Mata
  7. Valencia (already leaving)

In the above order as well.

I'd also consider letting both De Gea AND Pogba leave for the correct amount. But only if the board allocated at least 80% of it towards transfers.

Alexis, De Gea and Pogba leaving would rid us of "superstars" and completely rebalance the wage budget that has become broken due to Alexis' ridiculous salary. The squad harmony isn't right now when it comes to renewals. The players are using the Alexis salary as a tool to broker better deals for themselves. Probably our worst ever signing because of that.

Yes, selling two big assets is crazy on paper. BUT imagine if we could spend the money on the elite 19-23 year old players across Europe, and then rebuild with them + Lindelöf, Dalot, Rashford and Greenwood. It would be a 3 year plan at the very least. 

It's very difficult to sell that many players in one window and rebuild instantly, so it would require patience. Pep got rid of a lot of players in 2016 and 2017 before finally settling on his record breaking squad.

We need to be signing the likes of Sancho, Hudson-Odoi, de Ligt, Wan Bissaka, Zagadou, Aouar, Ndombele, Pépé, Barella, Zaniolo, Tonali, Neves, Félix, Havertz and Jović before they're snapped up by other big clubs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, O said:

If it was fantasy, I'd sell/release:

  1. Alexis
  2. Matić
  3. Rojo
  4. Bailly
  5. Jones
  6. Mata
  7. Valencia (already leaving)

In the above order as well.

I'd also consider letting both De Gea AND Pogba leave for the correct amount. But only if the board allocated at least 80% of it towards transfers.

Alexis, De Gea and Pogba leaving would rid us of "superstars" and completely rebalance the wage budget that has become broken due to Alexis' ridiculous salary. The squad harmony isn't right now when it comes to renewals. The players are using the Alexis salary as a tool to broker better deals for themselves. Probably our worst ever signing because of that.

Yes, selling two big assets is crazy on paper. BUT imagine if we could spend the money on the elite 19-23 year old players across Europe, and then rebuild with them + Lindelöf, Dalot, Rashford and Greenwood. It would be a 3 year plan at the very least. 

It's very difficult to sell that many players in one window and rebuild instantly, so it would require patience. Pep got rid of a lot of players in 2016 and 2017 before finally settling on his record breaking squad.

We need to be signing the likes of Sancho, Hudson-Odoi, de Ligt, Wan Bissaka, Zagadou, Aouar, Ndombele, Pépé, Barella, Zaniolo, Tonali, Neves, Félix, Havertz and Jović before they're snapped up by other big clubs.

You are right, we need to move all the prima donas on and Martial much as I had high hopes for him he hasn't kicked and can do one too. If De Gea doesn't sign a new reasonable deal, sell. Offer Pogba a new deal and sell if he declines or starts to haggle. Use the money to re-engineer the squad and start the rebuilding process  without the distraction of spoiled brats with questionable commitment. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, butler said:

Add these 3 also

Pogba

Martial

Lukaku

They come seriously under the inconsistency folder..

1

+De Gea the most scared, the most non-comanding GK of his penalty area cannot save pen if his life depended in him, also cannot deal with a cross.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 03/04/2019 at 13:42, butler said:

Add these 3 also

Pogba

Martial

Lukaku

They come seriously under the inconsistency folder..

So you'd get rid of the players who have contributed the highest goals and assists in the league this season? 🤡

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 03/04/2019 at 14:42, butler said:

Add these 3 also

Pogba

Martial

Lukaku

They come seriously under the inconsistency folder..

These two can do one, Lukaku we know he is limited as fuck but at the end of the day he is a 20 league goal striker. Martial hasn't kicked on in his 4 years here and Pogba is a walking transfer saga. We can't allow PP to run down his contract and next season he will have one year left meaning that we will get substantially less in fees. I think we can re-engineer our midfield if we sell Pogba to sign players like Reuben Neves and Bruno Fernandez, one is a game controlling midfielder who can play as a two way midfielder as he is equally good in midfield and defense whilst Bruno is a goal scoring midfielder in the Lampard/Gerrard mould. Whereas Greenwood could replace Martial as an inside forward and we wouldn't notice the difference.

53 minutes ago, Danny boy said:

So you'd get rid of the players who have contributed the highest goals and assists in the league this season? 🤡

We have achieved nothing this season because these players can't be relied on when chips are down, we need to really focus on rebuilding and avoid looking for quick fixes. Martial hasn't improved in four years here and Pogba plays when he wants to and the majority of the time he is shit plus there are doubts over his long term commitment - if Real  don't come for him this summer they will come for him next season and he will have one year left on his deal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Danny boy said:

So you'd get rid of the players who have contributed the highest goals and assists in the league this season? 🤡

Yes..and not bat an eyelid..they are inconsistent ..when the chips are down..they become bottleless..like the rest of them..

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Imat16   @butler The aim of a transfer window is up the overall quality of the squad, not diminish it. Getting rid of the players who have contributed the most in terms of goals and assists would be stupid. If, this did happen who would you bring who are of better quality? 

Edited by Danny boy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't mind keeping Lukaku and Pogba..even Martial for that matter..but they are unable to control games fron a losing position..these players play good when the rest are putting in 8/10  shifts..

But there hold play when we are losing is non evident..We are lacking are players with vision and leadership qualities...players who on their own initiative can play to how the condition is on the pitch..so far we have none..bar Shaw..and Mctominay is showing some good signs .

Dalot 

Mctominay

Lindelof 

Rashford

Shaw

Fred

Andreas 

David

Greenwood 

Gomez

Chong

Wilson 

These are the players I'd give more time too..

The rest can go walkies.

Edited by butler

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We have suffered from never re-establishing a solid back bone through the spine of the team.   You know the chemistry is wrong when we as fans can name the heartbeat of the City team, the Dippers, Tottenham, Chelsea.  Yet we dont know our own.  That is the result of chaotic mismanagement.  Not one single player apart from Big Dave and may be Pogba, has actually nailed down their place in the starting 11.    And the vast majority have been trying for 5 years.  Been saying it for 3 years. Until we actually bite the bullet and agree it needs ripping up and starting again, we will continue to chase our tail whilst other clubs chase silverware. 

You cant polish turds. It needs Ole or some cunt to be ruthless. Tell Jones. Smalling. Martial. Young. Rojo. Darmian. Sanchez. Herrera. Matic.Mata to fuck off and get the fuck on with the job in hand. Most of them, if not all have stolen big money out of United and given in return next to fuck all back.

Get a couple of quality defenders. Couple of quality midfielders. Couple of qualty strikers.  Pace and  a good age should be the prerequisite. Drip feed Chong, Greenwood, Garner with games.

This squad is way beyond the days when even the red tinted specs brigade proffessed that "We have a lot of class but we just need one or two more to complete the jigsaw".    Indeed it was fuckin embarrassing to listen to. But thankfully even they have jumped ship.    They were doing what we had laughed at the Scouse cunts for. Mass delusion. 

So the song remains the same. Ole needs backing. Huge financial backing.  And 6 or 7 need fucking off from our club. Then we should see our young players be given a chance too.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 05/04/2019 at 11:54, Danny boy said:

@Imat16   @butler The aim of a transfer window is up the overall quality of the squad, not diminish it. Getting rid of the players who have contributed the most in terms of goals and assists would be stupid. If, this did happen who would you bring who are of better quality? 

Imo Martial wouldn't be hard to replace whilst Pogba is a bit complex. If we were to sell Pogba I would replace him with two players, after securing a WR fee for him obviously, one would be Fekir and another Reuben Neves. Those two wouldn't replace Pogba's output but they will make the team function better as a whole resulting in a more solid team, a more creative team and one that is able to dominate the ball more.  Obviously this is premised on us completing the deals for positions earmarked for the summer before such departures.

FWIW the reason I am more inclined towards selling Pogba now is that he has two years left on his deal and will likely not sign another meaning that next summer he will have one year left, in a position to fleece us for an outrageous wage or walk on a free again. His performances are a bit streaky and he along with others like Lukaku, Rashford and Martial are behind the inconsistency that sees us beating PSG and getting done at Arsenal just days later. There is a mentality issue with United that I fear will not be resolved unless there is a massive clear out and the squad hits a reset button.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Imat16 said:

I fear will not be resolved unless there is a massive clear out

You cant beat a massive clear out on a Monday morning 👍

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this