Life After Mou

[Txrt 12,576]

18 hours ago, St!mpy said:

Who'd you recommend?. 

I'd take Bielsa, though that definitely does not address any form of long term, but it'd be a Rollercoaster. I think Poch will do well but I question his mentality at times and wonder if that will restrict him from winning anything. At the same time I believe he's got Spurs playing very well, perhaps even above their level. Love his use of youth. Jardim could be an option I wouldn't be against baring in mind that we'll be bringing in a DoF. I've had my questions over ZZ but I think he could also offer something, he's won enough that's for sure. 

I'd say Poch will come in the summer after United secure Paul Mitchell as DoF. I think he will be announced once we have agreed to the control he wants. 

Bielsa would never come to United. He'd never leave the club he's at unless there has been some tremendous wrong doing by the club or something of that sort. Not even if Madrid called him tomorrow, he just wouldn't quit Leeds. Also, he would never go to a club that is a direct rival of one he's managed before. Never.

My options would be much more extreme. I don't dislike Jardim, Zidane or Pochettino. But I wouldn't be scared of giving a chance to a manager that's not as known (Jardim probably isn't). I like managers that have clear ideas, who's ideas are easily seen in their teams, managers that like everything about football. The likes of Machín and Quique Setién from la Liga are screaming of being called by a bigger team. The few times I've watched them, Atalanta look brilliant under Gasperini, Bruno Genesio's Lyon play such attractive football as well, Lucien Favre is another obvious option. Conceiçao from Oporto as well... 

We've tried big names, it hasn't worked. It's not the most important thing for me, personally. I'd gladly give a chance to Setién for example, or Favre. I don't really think the guys on that list are worse than Pochettino or Zidane, for example. At least that is my personal opinion.

[O 20,624]

26 minutes ago, Txrt said:

So, this all has me super excited.

Being realistic, we are 19 points behind Liverpool, and 11 points off Champions League football. And we're facing PSG in the knockouts of the Champions League. From a realistic standpoint, it doesn't look like the future is full of hope for us, as we have it virtually impossible to get to the top 4, and PSG are superior to us (and if we beat them, we'd face another team superior to us, and then another, and then another), so probability says that we won't be playing in the CL next year. 

However, there is much more to this than pure football. First of all, there is surely going to be a great improvement in the dressing room's desire, ilusion and every mental part of the players. This means that players that have been left out before and have had problems with the manager for that will forget it, that everyone will start (hopefully) from 0, that the lineups are going to be based on meritocracy, etc. At least on paper. This should mean that players that we now think are shit and performed like shit so far are going to surely improve, show their worth, fight for a spot in the lineups, fight for a spot in next year's squad, compete between them for a spot, which will benefit the team massively. It will also be a great chance to assess who is worth keeping and who is not looking into next year. I am sure that many of the underperforming players will react to this positively and the results will be out there for us all to see. (And rather than losing the dressing room, and players wanting Mourinho gone, I'd say this is more a case of not knowing how to manage and get the best out of a dressing room). 

About our new manager (I don't like the word caretaker, he deserves to be treated as a manager for the time he'll be here), I personally would have prefered Blanc as an option, as I consider he ticks the same boxes as Ole, but with an added experience in these types of clubs, and a bigger chance to stay here past June if it goes well. However, I am going to be frank here, I don't really know much about Solskjaer as a manager. I don't know (or remember) much about his Cardiff stint, and I am not going to take that into account when talking about him in the future. I am super sure of one thing though, and that is that the football he's going to try to implement and the things he's going to try to do on the pitch will be more enjoyable than Mourinho's. I don't really care if he's a bit more defensive, if he's more attacking minded, if he likes to play 3 at the back or 6, I just want a clear idea. I just want to see a recognisable team when I watch United, a team that is a unit and plays as one, one in which the players look like they understand what they have to do in every situation, whatever those things are. I think we have a great chance of achieving that, specially taking into account the first paragraph and what the players' mentality should be at this point in time. 

I will watch United with interest again from now on, it felt more like a chore lately, it was even painful to watch at times. Now we are in a new process, a process where we have a new manager, and he'll have to be judged based on what he does weekly and how the team improves or gets worse from now on. I can't wait to slowly discover about Ole's philosophy, his preferred formations, what type of players he wants in his team, what we are going to try to do on the pitch, and how we'll try to do it. I start from 0 with him, as I have no clue about him as a manager, but at least I'm excited to see what he is going to try to bring. Because he'll have to give it his all, these next 6 months are his door to the club and top flight football as a manager.

All in all, even though the future looks dark when it comes to results and what we'll achieve this year, there is a spark for optimism, at least for me; some kind of new start, a new light that gives me reason to be positive and want to watch how the club evolves from its current situation. 

We’re probably going to get relegated, along with Athletic.

But yeah.

[abo 3,407]

yall too optimistic 

[Txrt 12,576]

2 minutes ago, O said:

We’re probably going to get relegated, along with Athletic.

But yeah.

There's a bigger chance United get relegated than Athletic.

It interests noone that Athletic get relegated. Someone would pay the refs, or fix the matches or whatever, but I see it super difficult to see Athletic going down. And it's not because we don't deserve it, precisely. 

If Athletic go down, I'll take a 20 or 40 year ban from here gladly. (I'd kill myself if it happened, so make it 60 years if you want)

[O 20,624]

14 minutes ago, abo said:

yall too optimistic 

You from the South?

[Mickey Mouse 1,119]

14 minutes ago, Txrt said:

There's a bigger chance United get relegated than Athletic.

It interests noone that Athletic get relegated. Someone would pay the refs, or fix the matches or whatever, but I see it super difficult to see Athletic going down. And it's not because we don't deserve it, precisely. 

If Athletic go down, I'll take a 20 or 40 year ban from here gladly. (I'd kill myself if it happened, so make it 60 years if you want)

3

And pepole wonder why I don't watch La Liga or Seria A for that matter. 

[RedDevilDazzy 3,130]

I wish Ole the best of luck, he has plenty of support around him, we are in this together.

[Txrt 12,576]

Just now, Mickey Mouse said:

And pepole wonder why I don't watch La Liga or Seria A for that matter. 

Good luck enjoying inferior football if you don't. 

It was a hypothetic case, not something that happens every day. But you take your decisions, good luck with them.

[Juanderful 3,456]

I think what is most interesting about all of this is the commitment to reverting to old philosophies. 

United has stood for many things over the years. With each appointment since Ferguson, we have appealed to one of those core beliefs;

 

Moyes reflects commitment. The fact that his 6-year contract still hasn't expired says a lot about that. He was meant to be the man to come in and just take the wheel from Ferguson. But he scrapped a lot of the inner-workings and treated the club like Everton 2.0

Van Gaal could be a reflection of the philosophy towards youth. He certainly lived up to that. He made mediocre teens play his style of football and made them, and players like Smalling, seem competent. Unfortunately, his style of football was so far removed from what the fans wanted (they didn't deserve it, for the most part) that he was kicked out of the door before he could even lift the FA Cup. He was also an attempt to re-brand our style of play but apparently, no-one wanted it...

Jose was appointed as the man to bring back the winning mentality. United have been serial winners and I think we were prepared to put up with his antics at the cost of bringing silverware back to the club. Which he did, in part. But much like LVG's heavy possession football, he went too far in the opposite direction (which is why I think we can rule out someone like Simeone...). The football was outdated and we have been left in the dirt by our two closest rivals playing a style we could only dream about seeing under J.M

 

 

Each of these managers has felt out of place, that they had something missing. Namely, more pieces to the overall values of the club. This seems to be the clear direction the club is now gunning towards and I think the main concern is whether they can update these values into the modern landscape of football. Or rather, whether they still have any relevance.

I believe the club is bringing in a DoF, which is a huge step in the right direction to modernising the infrastructure of the club. It means they can set on a vision and a brand and forever build towards it (though it seems they have done this already and will look for a man to just be the face of this movement). And almost like an appetiser for what's to come, they serve us dishes of nostalgia in Ole and Phelan who represent so much of what the fans have wanted during these turbulent years. 

If that is the way it will be, you have to wonder how far the club is willing to stick to these values. If they give the job to Pochettino, a man who many consider being the perfect fit, how long will they endure him without winning anything? His record suggests that might be the case... Will he have permission to bring through academy players? I mean, people say that if he moves to United, he'll have a chance to spend money and that will consequently present a different side to him. But you can't have both. You can't break transfer records, not play these players, and promote youth. It doesn't work that way. 

It does seem that the club is prepared to go this path though. They didn't indulge Jose's demands to buy more players and I don't imagine we will see anyone in January. I am sceptical of Woodward. Is he going to hand over control to a DoF and let them manage signings? Does this mean we'll stop spending so much money on players we don't need and who are largely not up to standard? Is the club going to go full throttle and make smart transfers from here on out? The statement made by not indulging Jose and giving him his marching orders would suggest this might be the case.

 

But let's see. If the club signs a Director of Football, only then will I start to feel more optimistic about what's to come. But if Ole is used as a means to buy back the Old Trafford faithful before we can him for someone like Zidane... then it has all been for nought. Personally, I think I would be okay with what I wrote above. About the club standing for something both on and off the pitch. Even if that means we don't win that much, there's a sense of pride in supporting a club that represents values than being a club that rides from wave to wave, grasping at anything to be successful (cough Chelsea).

I realise that sounds like Liverpool fans, who enjoy watching Klopp's football without winning anything, but that's exactly what they have done too. Bought in a committee to oversee the club. Stuck with and financially back Klopp and since he has arrived, I think they've loved every minute of it. We laugh about them being trophyless still but who's laughing now? They nearly won the CL and could very well win the League this year. You would be lying if you said you wouldn't swap places with them. If this is the start for us going on that exact journey, then I am on board with it and I'll happily enjoy the rest of the season, regardless of how it ends!

[THE BASTARD 1,401]

Great post Juan.   Respect to you sir.

[abo 3,407]

1 hour ago, O said:

You from the South?

Yes Ma'am

[O 20,624]

I do wonder if bringing in Solskjaer and bringing back Phelan is a case of Fergie trying to regain some element of power.

I think he'll be secretly delighted that Mourinho didn't succeed. He's supposed to have called Mourinho "a pup" in the past.

Now, I'm sure Ferguson wants to see the club succeed again. But I do worry that there is a hint of when Busby couldn't quite let go after he had moved upstairs. He kept his office and still conversed with senior players, and is meant to have undermined some of the managers that followed after him. 

I'm sure Solskjaer will be in contact with him about certain matters. And Phelan will definitely be his eyes & ears.

This probably a way back in for some of The Class of '92.

[abo 3,407]

6 minutes ago, O said:

I do wonder if bringing in Solskjaer and bringing back Phelan is a case of Fergie trying to regain some element of power.

I think he'll be secretly delighted that Mourinho didn't succeed. He's supposed to have called Mourinho "a pup" in the past.

Now, I'm sure Ferguson wants to see the club succeed again. But I do worry that there is a hint of when Busby couldn't quite let go after he had moved upstairs. He kept his office and still conversed with senior players, and is meant to have undermined some of the managers that followed after him. 

I'm sure Solskjaer will be in contact with him about certain matters. And Phelan will definitely be his eyes & ears.

This probably a way back in for some of The Class of '92.

somebody photoshop Fergie's face on Palpatine 

[Txrt 12,576]

36 minutes ago, Juanderful said:

If that is the way it will be, you have to wonder how far the club is willing to stick to these values. If they give the job to Pochettino, a man who many consider being the perfect fit, how long will they endure him without winning anything? His record suggests that might be the case... Will he have permission to bring through academy players? I mean, people say that if he moves to United, he'll have a chance to spend money and that will consequently present a different side to him. But you can't have both. You can't break transfer records, not play these players, and promote youth. It doesn't work that way. 

I really liked your post, but I don't agree with the part aboiut youth in this paragraph. 

Why can you not sign players and promote youth? It is exactly the way it should be. The key isn't signing 11 players breaking the record. Or playing 11 youngsters. The key is in having a balance between both. I've said plenty of times that for me, signings names because you have to sign makes no sense. But it makes even less sense to play youngsters when they are not good enough. How many youngsters do you think can be promoted each year? 1? 2 maybe? You rarely get the case where you can bring in more than that. You'll need to sign to complete the squad and be competitive! 

Another thing in which I believe I have a different idea compared to most here is how youth should be treated. I don't think a youngster should come and play every minute! There are rarely cases where a youngster comes through and improves what there is at the club currently, so why should someone force that situation and overplay someone that isn't better than what there is? They should be given chances, yes, but it should be a progressive process. Not come and boom play every match every week. But I don't think it's a choice between signing or youth. Both should be done.

You use yourself the Liverpool example, it's true that Klopp has given great chances to some youngsters (Joe Gomez and Alexander-Arnold, two basically), but at the same time the clubs improvement in his time there is also due to the fact that they've signed well (Allyson, Van Dijk, Salah,...). Same goes with Tottenham. Much is said about Pochettino's work with youth at Southampton etc. But in this Tottenham squad, most of the key pieces are signings. Dier was signed from Sporting, Alli was signed from MKD and then loaned out again (an example of progressiveness with youth), Ben Davies was signed, Trippier was signed, Harry Winks has been progressively brought in, Harry Kane had loans, Lucas Moura, Erikssen, Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Dembele, Aurier, Lamela... They are all signings. And they have at Tottenham a great example of what playing youth that is not ready to play every match every week does in Juan Foych as well.

The important thing is to bring in someone that finds balance. I don't want a team that only signs, because it won't take us where it should. But I don't want a team that just plays youth either, because it won't take us anywhere either. There are not going to be generations like the 92 anymore. If there is, once ever X years. It is all about finding the balance. 

[Juanderful 3,456]

40 minutes ago, Txrt said:

I really liked your post, but I don't agree with the part aboiut youth in this paragraph. 

Why can you not sign players and promote youth? It is exactly the way it should be. The key isn't signing 11 players breaking the record. Or playing 11 youngsters. The key is in having a balance between both. I've said plenty of times that for me, signings names because you have to sign makes no sense. But it makes even less sense to play youngsters when they are not good enough. How many youngsters do you think can be promoted each year? 1? 2 maybe? You rarely get the case where you can bring in more than that. You'll need to sign to complete the squad and be competitive! 

Another thing in which I believe I have a different idea compared to most here is how youth should be treated. I don't think a youngster should come and play every minute! There are rarely cases where a youngster comes through and improves what there is at the club currently, so why should someone force that situation and overplay someone that isn't better than what there is? They should be given chances, yes, but it should be a progressive process. Not come and boom play every match every week. But I don't think it's a choice between signing or youth. Both should be done.

You use yourself the Liverpool example, it's true that Klopp has given great chances to some youngsters (Joe Gomez and Alexander-Arnold, two basically), but at the same time the clubs improvement in his time there is also due to the fact that they've signed well (Allyson, Van Dijk, Salah,...). Same goes with Tottenham. Much is said about Pochettino's work with youth at Southampton etc. But in this Tottenham squad, most of the key pieces are signings. Dier was signed from Sporting, Alli was signed from MKD and then loaned out again (an example of progressiveness with youth), Ben Davies was signed, Trippier was signed, Harry Winks has been progressively brought in, Harry Kane had loans, Lucas Moura, Erikssen, Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Dembele, Aurier, Lamela... They are all signings. And they have at Tottenham a great example of what playing youth that is not ready to play every match every week does in Juan Foych as well.

The important thing is to bring in someone that finds balance. I don't want a team that only signs, because it won't take us where it should. But I don't want a team that just plays youth either, because it won't take us anywhere either. There are not going to be generations like the 92 anymore. If there is, once ever X years. It is all about finding the balance. 

No, that is a completely fair comment, I agree completely.

My post was dragging on, so I speeded through some parts that elaborated my thinking, like the part you pulled up.

The point I was trying to make was reflective on United's recent transfer policy. Woodward has taken the approach of letting everyone know we are still a big club by spending huge amounts of money - despite playing like a mid-table team. The perfect reflection of this was Sanchez. Did we need Sanchez in the squad? No. Did he unbalance the squad and hinder the progress of other players? Yes. Was he signed as a statement of intent/to get one over City? Probably.

Using Martial as the youth example, my question is whether we can trust the club to change their approach to signings to give the youthful players at the club a chance to cement their position in the team. I would want to board to acknowledge that we have Martial playing on the left and that he should be trusted to make that his own for the entire season - not to abandon that because a player like Sanchez became available.

Another example would be Jose's second season. There was a time where we could have gone into the season with Rashford/Martial as our strikers. In that instance, I would have liked for the club to have left the ST position open for one of them to have made it their own. But instead, they dropped £70,000,000 on Lukaku, effectively stunting Rashford's development where it wasn't really needed. Consequently, has Rashford regressed compared to the player we saw under LVG? I would say so. Are we better off with Lukaku? I would personally prefer an actual Donkey upfront. 

My point is that I want them to have belief in the players they sign and to abandon this approach of ruining the squad balance by signing players that aren't needed. Hell, even Fred. Did we really need him? The fact that he hardly got picked indicates that maybe it was a bit unnecessary. (He was another player City wanted...)

Anyway. I want them to respect the balance of the squad. To leave vacancies for academy/youth players to take a shot when it is appropriate, and spend money smartly with a long-term vision towards the development of the squad. Something which I think we have not been doing, but should be (basically your response, to express it better), under the rebirth of the clubs values!

[Txrt 12,576]

1 hour ago, Juanderful said:

No, that is a completely fair comment, I agree completely.

My post was dragging on, so I speeded through some parts that elaborated my thinking, like the part you pulled up.

The point I was trying to make was reflective on United's recent transfer policy. Woodward has taken the approach of letting everyone know we are still a big club by spending huge amounts of money - despite playing like a mid-table team. The perfect reflection of this was Sanchez. Did we need Sanchez in the squad? No. Did he unbalance the squad and hinder the progress of other players? Yes. Was he signed as a statement of intent/to get one over City? Probably.

Using Martial as the youth example, my question is whether we can trust the club to change their approach to signings to give the youthful players at the club a chance to cement their position in the team. I would want to board to acknowledge that we have Martial playing on the left and that he should be trusted to make that his own for the entire season - not to abandon that because a player like Sanchez became available.

But Martial was a buy after all. He should be given a chance, but one has to admit that Martial never showed consistency of any type and never showed he should have the starting spot for himself. Actually, I think competitiveness is the best thing that can happen inside a squad. Guardiola always goes on and on about it, and that's how it is. Martial should compete with Sanchez, with Rashford, and with the other strikers, and the one that performs better should be the one that starts most. Even if Sanchez gets better, Martial should be given minutes, and Martial should learn from Sanchez, but competitiveness is a must. Instead, we all become bland and complacent, and that's how the team is looking. Talent is talent, what a club and manager want is to win titles, if the chance of doing so is by playing Sanchez because he is better than Martial, I'm all for Sanchez playing more than Martial, as long as Martial gets his chances too and is treated fairly.

 

1 hour ago, Juanderful said:

Another example would be Jose's second season. There was a time where we could have gone into the season with Rashford/Martial as our strikers. In that instance, I would have liked for the club to have left the ST position open for one of them to have made it their own. But instead, they dropped £70,000,000 on Lukaku, effectively stunting Rashford's development where it wasn't really needed. Consequently, has Rashford regressed compared to the player we saw under LVG? I would say so. Are we better off with Lukaku? I would personally prefer an actual Donkey upfront. 

I think noone can expect a club like us to start a season with Rashford and Martial. For many reasons, first is that they don't score nowhere near enough goals between both. Second is two strikers in the squad is way way too scarce for a club that plays 4 competitions. Thirdly, because I personally don't see neither Martial or Rashford as an out and out striker. 

It's true that Rashford has regressed, but I don't think it was because of anything related to Lukaku. Personally, I think it has more to do with OVERPLAYING him, and not doing it progressively like I have said before. There are plenty of cases of this within the Premier League. Walcott is the most obvious one, has a great month, gets called the next this, the next that, new contract, number 7, National Team, has it all done. Regresses. There is a case even in our own club with Januzaj. First great season, above every expectation, given a new number, new contract, goes to the National Team, and then when things aren't as good as they really were said to be what? Critics, anxiety, it's what doing this all too suddenly does. Rashford? The same, scores some goals in his first season, gets called to the national team, even rejects playing the u-21 Euro (the type of things that show how really badly managed this all has been, where Germany have players that have achieved more than Rashford playing there, the whole Spain squad the same, etc), then new number, then newer expectations... When the reality is that I don't think he's as good as he's said to be. And it happens soo often in England and with English players.

1 hour ago, Juanderful said:

 

My point is that I want them to have belief in the players they sign and to abandon this approach of ruining the squad balance by signing players that aren't needed. Hell, even Fred. Did we really need him? The fact that he hardly got picked indicates that maybe it was a bit unnecessary. (He was another player City wanted...)

Anyway. I want them to respect the balance of the squad. To leave vacancies for academy/youth players to take a shot when it is appropriate, and spend money smartly with a long-term vision towards the development of the squad. Something which I think we have not been doing, but should be (basically your response, to express it better), under the rebirth of the clubs values!

I agree with what you say to some extent. The club make unnecesary signings many times. However I don't agree with having vacacnies for academy players. I expect academy players to improve what there is in the squad to deserve playing time. For example, McTominay and some others in the past have, and when they are good enough, they stay, and when they are not, they leave. It's impossible to want to compete while promoting 4 academy players. Do you think if there is a good enough LB in the academy, he won't have a chance? It's not hard competing with Ashley Young or Darmian, for example for a spot. Or a CB? It's not like we're great there. Or at the striker position itself, do you think if there's a great striker at the u-21s that would be good enough to keep in the first team, he wouldn't actually earn his minutes with work, scoring in training, and in the chances he's given? They surely would. If they are not able to get some minutes with competition like Darmian and Ashley Young, they probably don't deserve to be promoted, because if you want to win things and be a started in this team, you have to be better than those two. Or at least be able to compete with them and sometimes get a start, some other times play from the bench, etc. 

Now, I agree with you that the youth will be given more of a chance without Mourinho and with Ole, for example. Or surely with the guy that comes. But I don't think they should be played by some law. They should be played if they earn their minutes being better or training harder than the rest. The sentence "if he's good enough, he's old enough" sums it up perfectly. If they're good enough, they'll play, and they'll stay, and they'll succeed.

[pearson77 1,571]

20 hours ago, butler said:

How about Keano..just for the sheer hell of it.

I'd fuckin love it! He'd kick some arses for sure.

Anyway, I love Olly and won't hear a word against the little fella. Even if we have a terrible 2nd half of the season, not a word..he's just here to keep things rolling till the summer.

Edited December 19, 2018 by pearson77

[Juanderful 3,456]

2 hours ago, Txrt said:

But Martial was a buy after all. He should be given a chance, but one has to admit that Martial never showed consistency of any type and never showed he should have the starting spot for himself. Actually, I think competitiveness is the best thing that can happen inside a squad. Guardiola always goes on and on about it, and that's how it is. Martial should compete with Sanchez, with Rashford, and with the other strikers, and the one that performs better should be the one that starts most. Even if Sanchez gets better, Martial should be given minutes, and Martial should learn from Sanchez, but competitiveness is a must. Instead, we all become bland and complacent, and that's how the team is looking. Talent is talent, what a club and manager want is to win titles, if the chance of doing so is by playing Sanchez because he is better than Martial, I'm all for Sanchez playing more than Martial, as long as Martial gets his chances too and is treated fairly.

 

I think noone can expect a club like us to start a season with Rashford and Martial. For many reasons, first is that they don't score nowhere near enough goals between both. Second is two strikers in the squad is way way too scarce for a club that plays 4 competitions. Thirdly, because I personally don't see neither Martial or Rashford as an out and out striker. 

It's true that Rashford has regressed, but I don't think it was because of anything related to Lukaku. Personally, I think it has more to do with OVERPLAYING him, and not doing it progressively like I have said before. There are plenty of cases of this within the Premier League. Walcott is the most obvious one, has a great month, gets called the next this, the next that, new contract, number 7, National Team, has it all done. Regresses. There is a case even in our own club with Januzaj. First great season, above every expectation, given a new number, new contract, goes to the National Team, and then when things aren't as good as they really were said to be what? Critics, anxiety, it's what doing this all too suddenly does. Rashford? The same, scores some goals in his first season, gets called to the national team, even rejects playing the u-21 Euro (the type of things that show how really badly managed this all has been, where Germany have players that have achieved more than Rashford playing there, the whole Spain squad the same, etc), then new number, then newer expectations... When the reality is that I don't think he's as good as he's said to be. And it happens soo often in England and with English players.

I agree with what you say to some extent. The club make unnecesary signings many times. However I don't agree with having vacacnies for academy players. I expect academy players to improve what there is in the squad to deserve playing time. For example, McTominay and some others in the past have, and when they are good enough, they stay, and when they are not, they leave. It's impossible to want to compete while promoting 4 academy players. Do you think if there is a good enough LB in the academy, he won't have a chance? It's not hard competing with Ashley Young or Darmian, for example for a spot. Or a CB? It's not like we're great there. Or at the striker position itself, do you think if there's a great striker at the u-21s that would be good enough to keep in the first team, he wouldn't actually earn his minutes with work, scoring in training, and in the chances he's given? They surely would. If they are not able to get some minutes with competition like Darmian and Ashley Young, they probably don't deserve to be promoted, because if you want to win things and be a started in this team, you have to be better than those two. Or at least be able to compete with them and sometimes get a start, some other times play from the bench, etc. 

Now, I agree with you that the youth will be given more of a chance without Mourinho and with Ole, for example. Or surely with the guy that comes. But I don't think they should be played by some law. They should be played if they earn their minutes being better or training harder than the rest. The sentence "if he's good enough, he's old enough" sums it up perfectly. If they're good enough, they'll play, and they'll stay, and they'll succeed.

I don't have the time just now to give this the response that it warrants, but I just wanted to let you know that I read it all and have noted what you have said! 

[ALF 6,862]

5 hours ago, pearson77 said:

I'd fuckin love it! He'd kick some arses for sure.

Anyway, I love Olly and won't hear a word against the little fella. Even if we have a terrible 2nd half of the season, not a word..he's just here to keep things rolling till the summer.

I'm uncomfortable with the notion that Keano coming in and kicking some arse would do nothing but upset and destabilise the dressing room to the same level Jose has, if not worse.

I think the era of the disciplinarian has well and truly gone, most successful managers these days seem to be very lovely and friendly with their players, with the exception being Simone perhaps.  

A manager who is a cross between both would be ideal frankly but thats Fergie stuff which is fucking hard to find. I kinda feel like Footballers respect a manager who trust and respects them rather than one who uses fear, anger and intimidation as his method of being heard and leading. 

Look at the contrast between Southgate and his predecessors. Theres no denying that the positive wholesome atmosphere he created did nothing but good things with those players.  

Like it or not this is the culture the current generation of teens are a lot more socially aware and stand up for what they believe is right when it comes to equality and behaviour and theres nothing to suggest that Footballers aren't any different from them. 

(this wasn't a personal attack on you Pearson, simply my take on the Keane idea) 

Edited December 20, 2018 by ALF

[pearson77 1,571]

4 hours ago, ALF said:

I'm uncomfortable with the notion that Keano coming in and kicking some arse would do nothing but upset and destabilise the dressing room to the same level Jose has, if not worse.

I think the era of the disciplinarian has well and truly gone, most successful managers these days seem to be very lovely and friendly with their players, with the exception being Simone perhaps.  

A manager who is a cross between both would be ideal frankly but thats Fergie stuff which is fucking hard to find. I kinda feel like Footballers respect a manager who trust and respects them rather than one who uses fear, anger and intimidation as his method of being heard and leading. 

Look at the contrast between Southgate and his predecessors. Theres no denying that the positive wholesome atmosphere he created did nothing but good things with those players.  

Like it or not this is the culture the current generation of teens are a lot more socially aware and stand up for what they believe is right when it comes to equality and behaviour and theres nothing to suggest that Footballers aren't any different from them. 

(this wasn't a personal attack on you Pearson, simply my take on the Keane idea) 

yeah my comment wasn't too serious..although the thought of Pogba running up and down the training pitch with a growling Roy Keane chasing him amuses me..i'm starting to think i'm just a bad person..or a bit of a cunt haha

[venusplanet 1,555]

Finally got time and reason to be back on the forum... Mou is gone... Ole is back... time to smile again and assassinate opponents with some great football. 

[ALF 6,862]

4 hours ago, pearson77 said:

yeah my comment wasn't too serious..although the thought of Pogba running up and down the training pitch with a growling Roy Keane chasing him amuses me..i'm starting to think i'm just a bad person..or a bit of a cunt haha

I mean that would be pretty funny theres no doubt about that. 

[Imat16 130]

19 hours ago, Txrt said:

Bielsa would never come to United. He'd never leave the club he's at unless there has been some tremendous wrong doing by the club or something of that sort. Not even if Madrid called him tomorrow, he just wouldn't quit Leeds. Also, he would never go to a club that is a direct rival of one he's managed before. Never.

My options would be much more extreme. I don't dislike Jardim, Zidane or Pochettino. But I wouldn't be scared of giving a chance to a manager that's not as known (Jardim probably isn't). I like managers that have clear ideas, who's ideas are easily seen in their teams, managers that like everything about football. The likes of Machín and Quique Setién from la Liga are screaming of being called by a bigger team. The few times I've watched them, Atalanta look brilliant under Gasperini, Bruno Genesio's Lyon play such attractive football as well, Lucien Favre is another obvious option. Conceiçao from Oporto as well... 

We've tried big names, it hasn't worked. It's not the most important thing for me, personally. I'd gladly give a chance to Setién for example, or Favre. I don't really think the guys on that list are worse than Pochettino or Zidane, for example. At least that is my personal opinion.

Ditto this, football is a funny game and I think the clearest indicator to a manager's likelihood of success in no longer just about trophies won years ago but about how they are able to:

a) improve players under their tutelage

b) impose a style of play especially an aesthetic one but also have the flexibility to mix it up

c) identify and integrate young exciting talent

d) man management

The rest is up to the backing he receives from management, for example if we had a guy like Pochettino (not yet decided on him) and he was able to make us competitive again and become a fixture in the top three, we have the financial resources to buy him an absolute superstar or two that turn a fourth place finish into first or a CL semi appearance into a CL final win. The thing though is currently we lack the manager and the supporting structure that enables us to really build a team so this is why I am currently not comfortable with Pochettino or Zidane because I want the DoF in place first and for him to lead the process of identifying the next manager, reinforcing the first team and building a scouting network.

[Imat16 130]

3 hours ago, haggler said:

Ole will bring a smile back to the players faces and phelan pops a mean balloon 

Sanchez is a superb player who disappeared under the grinch

Martial should be the central striker with lukaku behind him knocking balls down 

Shaw will shine and Pogba may turn up once in a while.

First job is sorting the midfield 

Under Jose everything was done too slowly

It needs to go from back to front quickly and we have the players to do that

This puts the opponent on the back foot. We then need to face up when we lose the ball. That is where Pogba doesn’t fit. He loses the ball and he jumps up and down like a toddler throwing a tantrum. 

If Pogba doesn’t play like a giant now he will be shown upmas a fraud.

Interesting times ahead.

I imagine we already have the manager agreed and Ole will be advised of his transfer targets for January 

The midfield is the easiest to sort because we simply give Ander the holding role and rest Matic (he looks exhausted). Herrera, Fred  (Pereira) and Pogba is good enough to fight it out with the best in the league. The defense is more concerning because we don't have one reliable player in there bar Shaw but maybe Bailly and Smalling could do but its a stretch. In attack simply remove Lukaku from the CF role and play Rashford I think he is better when the ball is played on the turf, keep Martial on the left and have Sanchez/Lukaku drifting in from the right. 

[aardvarked 11,014]

11 minutes ago, Imat16 said:

The midfield is the easiest to sort because we simply give Ander the holding role and rest Matic (he looks exhausted). Herrera, Fred  (Pereira) and Pogba is good enough to fight it out with the best in the league. The defense is more concerning because we don't have one reliable player in there bar Shaw but maybe Bailly and Smalling could do but its a stretch. In attack simply remove Lukaku from the CF role and play Rashford I think he is better when the ball is played on the turf, keep Martial on the left and have Sanchez/Lukaku drifting in from the right. 

I think we'd be better playing Martial centrally and keeping Rashford on the left tbh.