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What are we doing as a club?

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If you're going to keep a manager, then you give him the tools to do the job. We didn't in the summer. We're still making simple defensive mistakes which are costing us. But yes I do think it's probably time to change manager - but we have to be prepared to back that manager with whatever he needs.

To say he was pleased with that performance isn't making me have any more faith in him. We setup in a way that you'd expect a midtable side to go to the Etihad with. Mind you, we ARE a midtable side at this moment. I think we need to start dictating pace of matches, and adopt the modern pressing style.

Unless we win the thing, we're not going to be in the Champions League next year - that will make getting the top class players (or even the next tier down) more difficult when our rivals can offer that. I'm not at all optimistic about the current direction of this club.

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3 minutes ago, Sownak27 said:

You can add Pereira's progress to the RIP list. 

At this rate, we're going to struggle to make the Champions League places. Given that top four is the extent of ambition in this club, I can see failure in qualifying for Europe as the only thing that purges us of Jose. 

I'm ready to take that hit, to be honest.

Fans will give me shit for it, but I really do think comebacks like the Newcastle and Juventus ones have done more damage than good.

It has bought Mourinho more time and support from certain fans that buy into the false narrative that things will get better.

Okay, so Pogba wasn't available today. Get on with it. De Bruyne didn't play either.

"But O, they're also blessed with the two Silvas?" Mourinho bought Fred to add more dynamism, and he has Mata at his disposal who should be similar to Bernardo's ability.

Pep had to get by with Delph at LB for most of last season due to Mendy's long term injury. 

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Consistently being talked as one of the biggest club in the world but still have no clear strategy regarding managers or players. Even Madrid have a strategy where u give results or else get the fuck out of the door while we tend to put up with shit untill it kills the season completely. 

We have been outrun in every game this season by opponents and have a negative goal difference. The club badly needs a football director and a clear strategy for the future.

The performances will hurt the club financially in long runs as the new generation coming up all over the world will be attracted to city or Liverpool. The financial success is built on footballing sucess which we enjoyed under Fergie and without trophies money will dry up sooner rather than later.

 

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4 minutes ago, TFIA said:

When the positives are Lindelof and Shaw you’re basically in hell.

No one is good enough. Not a single player or staff member and everyone must go. Start from scratch with Poch.

Add that when your first choice centre back it Chris Smalling, and the first choice right back is Ashley Young.

2 minutes ago, nirav said:

Consistently being talked as one of the biggest club in the world but still have no clear strategy regarding managers or players. Even Madrid have a strategy where u give results or else get the fuck out of the door while we tend to put up with shit untill it kills the season completely. 

We have been outrun in every game this season by opponents and have a negative goal difference. The club badly needs a football director and a clear strategy for the future.

The performances will hurt the club financially in long runs as the new generation coming up all over the world will be attracted to city or Liverpool. The financial success is built on footballing sucess which we enjoyed under Fergie and without trophies money will dry up sooner rather than later.

 

Yeah, but ironically, that's when the Glazers panic and fill the transfer kitty.

6 minutes ago, TFIA said:

When the positives are Lindelof and Shaw you’re basically in hell.

No one is good enough. Not a single player or staff member and everyone must go. Start from scratch with Poch.

Not sure he'd swap Spurs for us. Hell Real Madrid failed to entice him.

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The trouble is we have lumbering statues in midfield that are flat footed most of the times even out best midfielder Pogba is not dynamic then you surround him week in week out with a combination of Matic and Fellaini and you wonder why we can't press. 

We have not had a dynamic midfielder fleet of foot like the Silvas since Scholesey!

Mourunho has got lucky of late which has given him a stay of execution. The late comebacks masked huge problems.

City not brilliant so that just tells you the gulf in class. I'm not being dramatic in that the only players which imo deserve a place is...

De Gea regardless of this match he has saved us points throughout the years he's having a bad time recently Pogba, Martial and maybe Lindelof and Mata. I can't think of any other players that have been worthy of a place it's an embarrassment that during Mourinho's tenure having spent close to 500million that this team is scraping around 8th or 9th.

What are we doing as a club was the question.. We're massaging the ego of an outdated classless manager and taking the players with it.

At this stage a nobody name could come in with a completely fresh approach and outlook.

Sometimes a simple answer is the solution.

Edited by PVAD

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If we're gonna do it, then we'd need to get someone in for the January window, and early enough that they can put a plan in place. We'd have to write off this season most probably if they want to try things out - but aside from the cups, and a very slim chance of the Champions League title, the season's done anyway. Ideally we need to get the DOF established as well. This of course does jeopardise Carrick and McKenna's positions, as the new man will want to bring his own people in - but that's the price we have to pay. In terms of candidates, we ideally want someone like Pochettino or a top class coach who embraces modern tactics and thinking. We need to be 100% ready to challenge for next season - so sorry @St!mpy no long term projects based around blooding youngsters over a couple of years.

It's becoming a Liverpool style decline rapidly however. And they still haven't recovered.

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 We are talking "Drawing board".   Literally.      Mourinho needs to go, but equally 6 or 7 players need shipping out.

Woodbrain should told to concentrate more on signing more chucky noodle deals.

 

It is officially a mass cluster fuck.   No chemistry what so ever.  Take away big Dave and Pogba, then we have nothing.   Zilch. Zero.

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19 minutes ago, MikeM said:

If we're gonna do it, then we'd need to get someone in for the January window, and early enough that they can put a plan in place. We'd have to write off this season most probably if they want to try things out - but aside from the cups, and a very slim chance of the Champions League title, the season's done anyway. Ideally we need to get the DOF established as well. This of course does jeopardise Carrick and McKenna's positions, as the new man will want to bring his own people in - but that's the price we have to pay. In terms of candidates, we ideally want someone like Pochettino or a top class coach who embraces modern tactics and thinking. We need to be 100% ready to challenge for next season - so sorry @St!mpy no long term projects based around blooding youngsters over a couple of years.

It's becoming a Liverpool style decline rapidly however. And they still haven't recovered.

Sorry mate. 

Though not essentially blooding youngsters whereby you only play youth, no. What I always meant by that is the balance. 

As I've said before, there's a core of youngsters that are ready to come through. We should go into the summer looking to start afresh. A CB, RB and CM to be added to current squad then breed out the aging players (Valencia, Young, Matic etc) with youth. That's the balance. 

The time is right. Matic, Sanchez, Young, Valencia, Mata, Fellaini, Smalling and Jones will all be in their twilight or beyond by end 2019. Do it. 

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2 minutes ago, St!mpy said:

Sorry mate. 

Though not essentially blooding youngsters whereby you only play youth, no. What I always meant by that is the balance. 

As I've said before, there's a core of youngsters that are ready to come through. We should go into the summer looking to start afresh. A CB, RB and CM to be added to current squad then breed out the aging players (Valencia, Young, Matic etc) with youth. That's the balance. 

The time is right. Matic, Sanchez, Young, Valencia, Mata, Fellaini, Smalling and Jones will all be in their twilight or beyond by end 2019. Do it. 

Yeah, but you've always said we can't compete for the best of those players, so we shouldn't spend money. It's gonna take around £200m to buy those three alone. I'd say we need a right sided attacker as well. We could actually use what we've bought as well, Fred has potential, Victor Lindelof is improving and I think Eric Bailly could be a special player.

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19 minutes ago, JaimeL said:

One of the major problems - the major problem? - is that the three managers post Ferguson are all dinosaurs in the way they play. Literally every other top six team (the way we're going, we won't even be a top 6 team soon) plays attractive, attacking football with a high press. Watching us, we're an utter embarrassment, genuinely like a hungover pub team at times.

 

People saying we need to back Mourinho with more money - he was whining for a centre back all summer, but he spent £52m on a midfielder he doesn't play at all. The club is a shambles at the moment, but so much of that is down to who we're hiring. Christ, even Arsenal are doing well now that Wenger's gone.

 

We need to go the director of football route, establish a coherent style of play and buy players who fit that, not ones who'll get the most likes on Instagram. The sooner Mourinho goes the better - our resources aren't limitless and he plunging an awful lot on dross like Matic, Sanchez, Lukaku, Fred who doesn't play etc. Look at how much cheaper players like Mané, Salah, Moura were, all playing much better football on much less wages.

 

We're dire right now, I hate how much better so many other teams are. We're truly depressing to watch. Losing I can take - I've seen us win more titles in my lifetime than almost any other football supporter will get to - but playing such negative football sucks the joy out of the game.

The one positive is the Greenwood - Gomes - Chong axis we have coming through - hopefully we'll have a more progressive manager in by the time they're ready for first team action.

Good point mate.

The bit in Bold I think we have nothing to lose... so unfortunate though that this manager because they got relegated last season sees it as a convenient excuse to say they are not ready but...Lukaku, Sanchez, Lingard, Matic Rashford are ready?? Ridiculous really!,

You're probably aware that it's been nearly 4000 consecutive games that a United manager has selected a youth team graduate in their match-day squad.

It is a run that started on Oct. 30, 1937 but I believe this cretin could actually end this proud 81 year old record that's how derisory he sees the current U23 and youth players.

Edited by PVAD

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we as a club don't have a plan. We appointed jose to provided us with a miracle and bring us a trophy without bring in 11 world class players. Look at city very player on that pitch today is world class or has world class potential. And to all the people that wanted pogba out, look at our team without him. We look like fulham today without pogba. Sad thing is our world class or potenital world calss player will leave our club sooner rather than later. scary times fo our club, sary times.

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9 hours ago, MikeM said:

Yeah, but you've always said we can't compete for the best of those players, so we shouldn't spend money. It's gonna take around £200m to buy those three alone. I'd say we need a right sided attacker as well. We could actually use what we've bought as well, Fred has potential, Victor Lindelof is improving and I think Eric Bailly could be a special player.

Well of course we'd have to spend, there's no way around that. We'd need to use what we have as well. With regards to the best players, the emphasis was on big names. 

So what we'd do is spend the initial outlay on young, very talented players in those positions then phase out the aging players with youth. More youth opportunities. For this I'd bring in someone like ZZ or Jardim and I'm only basing that on their work with young players. Youth will come to fruition over a series of seasons, hence the 'build' part. That City squad is young enough to dominate for still some time. 

I'd definitely look for a manager who will keep McKenna on board, possibly Carrick too. Carrick should look to go manage though. McKenna knows our youth. Add DoF. This is the direction we need to take in order to challenge again. 

Edited by St!mpy

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Utter fuckin rubbish.   Whats all this "Youth" bollocks?     How many young starlets have City brought through their youth ranks??   Or Chelsea, Arsenal, the Dippers?

Its not fuckin FIFA 19.      What the fuck did Zidane do at Madrid apart from be a face to throw in front of the camera after a game.    Perez has run the show their for 10 years, end of.     Send Carrick off to Manage Boro for a couple of years then he'll be right?

Mark Hughes. Steve Bruce. Bryan Robson. Paul Ince. Jaap Stam. Gary Neville.    Just a small selection of players that prove managing football teams is not anything like playing for one.   

I'm not convinced you realise the situation United are in, but read my lips......"T H E Y  A R E  I N  B I G  T R O U B L E ".   

The biggest problem this squad suffers from...(As I pointed  out 18 months ago) is pace throughout.  Felliani. Matic. Mata. Herrera. All seriously pedestrian.  You could add Martial to that list too. Granted he can move, but whenever he gets in a clear one on one  situation he always waits for an extra defender to come over and then tries to take both on and generally has it took off him.    There's only ever Pogba Shaw and Rashford that looks to put themselves about the pitch.  The Opta stats are nailing United practically every week.   The vast majority of the team are not putting up the yards covered numbers that other teams are.   Not because they wont, but simply because they cant.  Which ultimately makes playing against United  a hell of a lot easier. Hence the fear factor has totally gone.

Practically every after match report is copy and pasted......."United looked leggy....Jaded. Devoid of ideas"   Reports from games against the likes of Newcastle, Derby, West Ham.    Not Barcelona or Munich or Madrid.

I'm not sure United can afford the time it would take to "faze out" the yard dogs.   Emergency surgery for me all day long.  And the sooner the better.

 

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14 hours ago, MikeM said:

If you're going to keep a manager, then you give him the tools to do the job. We didn't in the summer. We're still making simple defensive mistakes which are costing us. But yes I do think it's probably time to change manager - but we have to be prepared to back that manager with whatever he needs.

To say he was pleased with that performance isn't making me have any more faith in him. We setup in a way that you'd expect a midtable side to go to the Etihad with. Mind you, we ARE a midtable side at this moment. I think we need to start dictating pace of matches, and adopt the modern pressing style.

Unless we win the thing, we're not going to be in the Champions League next year - that will make getting the top class players (or even the next tier down) more difficult when our rivals can offer that. I'm not at all optimistic about the current direction of this club.

I agree with this but at the same time he's still culpable. Where's Bailly? Dalot? Fred? Sanchez? These are all players who he brought in but decides not to play to them. We need a right back, a centre back, a right sided winger. Arguably another striker. Fine. But you're telling me the personnel that's there right now can't perform to a higher level? The back four can't be coached to be improved? The midfielders can't develop their passing? As a team we can't develop a way to play to the strengths of the squad? There's no style/pattern to our play, the team is constantly chopped and changed so nobody can build up an understanding. So he can whinge about signings all he wants, he's the manager, he's signed players that for whatever reason chooses not to play, he has a coaching team and this is the best he can come up with? It's embarrassing from the very top of the club who seemed more concerned with securing noodle deals, to the manager who tanked some games this season with BS team selections to prove a point. 

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46 minutes ago, THE BASTARD said:

Utter fuckin rubbish.   Whats all this "Youth" bollocks?     How many young starlets have City brought through their youth ranks??   Or Chelsea, Arsenal, the Dippers?

Its not fuckin FIFA 19.      What the fuck did Zidane do at Madrid apart from be a face to throw in front of the camera after a game.    Perez has run the show their for 10 years, end of.     Send Carrick off to Manage Boro for a couple of years then he'll be right?

Mark Hughes. Steve Bruce. Bryan Robson. Paul Ince. Jaap Stam. Gary Neville.    Just a small selection of players that prove managing football teams is not anything like playing for one.   

I'm not convinced you realise the situation United are in, but read my lips......"T H E Y  A R E  I N  B I G  T R O U B L E ".   

The biggest problem this squad suffers from...(As I pointed  out 18 months ago) is pace throughout.  Felliani. Matic. Mata. Herrera. All seriously pedestrian.  You could add Martial to that list too. Granted he can move, but whenever he gets in a clear one on one  situation he always waits for an extra defender to come over and then tries to take both on and generally has it took off him.    There's only ever Pogba Shaw and Rashford that looks to put themselves about the pitch.  The Opta stats are nailing United practically every week.   The vast majority of the team are not putting up the yards covered numbers that other teams are.   Not because they wont, but simply because they cant.  Which ultimately makes playing against United  a hell of a lot easier. Hence the fear factor has totally gone.

Practically every after match report is copy and pasted......."United looked leggy....Jaded. Devoid of ideas"   Reports from games against the likes of Newcastle, Derby, West Ham.    Not Barcelona or Munich or Madrid.

I'm not sure United can afford the time it would take to "faze out" the yard dogs.   Emergency surgery for me all day long.  And the sooner the better.

 

My God. 

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José has to get the boot, as did Van Gaal before him!

Of course United's owners also have to take blame. The two best managers in the premiership were signed whilst they persisted with VG. Either Klopp or Pep would have taken the club in the right direction. José was at best third choice and certainly seems to have left his winning ways years behind him.

And then there's the wages paid at this club. Every supposed superstar we've signed over the past few years has been like a dud firecracker. Now is the time to buy lesser players. Surely there are Vidics etc and even championship players that would cost a lot less in wages yet aim to produce far more than the overpriced, overpampered wasters we currently have?

And since a top four place looks beyond this group of players, bring in the starlets like Fosu Mensa,  Gomez, Chang etc, and see if they cut it......rather than the policy of not playing them till they leave for peanuts, and buying them back for loads of millions!

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17 hours ago, O said:

I'm ready to take that hit, to be honest.

Fans will give me shit for it, but I really do think comebacks like the Newcastle and Juventus ones have done more damage than good.

It has bought Mourinho more time and support from certain fans that buy into the false narrative that things will get better.

Okay, so Pogba wasn't available today. Get on with it. De Bruyne didn't play either.

"But O, they're also blessed with the two Silvas?" Mourinho bought Fred to add more dynamism, and he has Mata at his disposal who should be similar to Bernardo's ability.

Pep had to get by with Delph at LB for most of last season due to Mendy's long term injury. 

I honestly think that the post-match interview with Jose saying that City had two friendly matches while we didn't has to be the death knell to his time at OT. City are that good, they made it look like friendly matches while we huffed and puffed against Bournemouth and rode our luck amazingly against a Juve side that had us on toast - something that says more about them than it does us.

The funny thing was that Jose was saying that we can't keep gifting the opposition goals because one day we're going to come up against somebody against whom we will be unable to claw it back. That game was yesterday and it seems that Pogba not being in the starting line up put paid to any chances United may have thought they had. That in itself is pathetic and this acceptance of the mundane or that even second best is beyond us will have far-reaching consequences IMO. I can see a whole raft of stars leaving with the likes of Jones, Darmian, Fellaini, Matic, Smalling, Young, Valencia & Lukaku carrying the torch for the next two years at least. Maybe then Fred will get a chance. And possibly Perreira if he hasn't already joined the exodus.

Christ, I'd almost say it wasn't this bad under LVG, but Jose hasn't really done much better, or worse, since the iron tulip was thrown on the scrapheap while the corks were still popping. I really feel that United are at a crossroads and are in serious danger of going into freefall. The next manager, no matter when that will be now, will have a huge task ahead of himself to try and get United of this rut and playing a kind of football that represents an improvement on the varying degrees of dross that have been served up at OT for at least seven years now and it's increasingly difficult to see exactly who that person will be as the incompetence at boardroom level that has been present for at least ten years now continues unabated. I mean - Fergie let Ronaldo go, followed by Tevez which really weakened our attack, our entire midfield retired as did our centre-back pairing and the replacements have been nowhere near up to scratch. Then Wee Davey's hapless grimace followed by Van Gaal's baffling analyses of games where we were dogshite and now the Brooding Mourinho Show where somehow everyone has a march on us and we're only ever one game from disaster and parking the bus and hoping that the other team don't put us to the sword when they should do.

Jesus wept.

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8 hours ago, Danny boy said:

I agree with this but at the same time he's still culpable. Where's Bailly? Dalot? Fred? Sanchez? These are all players who he brought in but decides not to play to them. We need a right back, a centre back, a right sided winger. Arguably another striker. Fine. But you're telling me the personnel that's there right now can't perform to a higher level? The back four can't be coached to be improved? The midfielders can't develop their passing? As a team we can't develop a way to play to the strengths of the squad? There's no style/pattern to our play, the team is constantly chopped and changed so nobody can build up an understanding. So he can whinge about signings all he wants, he's the manager, he's signed players that for whatever reason chooses not to play, he has a coaching team and this is the best he can come up with? It's embarrassing from the very top of the club who seemed more concerned with securing noodle deals, to the manager who tanked some games this season with BS team selections to prove a point. 

For the record I didn't say Jose was absolved either, in fact I went on to say I think it's time to make a change.

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