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UCL - Game 3 - Man Utd vs Juventus

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1 minute ago, MikeM said:

Really? We lost, and you hope it should be by more?

And again, you think City, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea are going to stand still and let us catch up?

We are currently falling behind. We need to stop worrying what every other club are doing and look within ourselves. There's a building job that is required here at United, not patch work. 

 

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Just now, MikeM said:

Really? We lost, and you hope it should be by more?

Yep, the more bad defeats, the sooner Jose is kicked out, and maybe a different manager would try to play attacking football!

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1 minute ago, MikeM said:

Other than the #6 you mean? Pogba is a fucking passenger.

No, just someone like Fred with a bit of energy. They were not the same side when we attacked them. 

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Just now, St!mpy said:

We are currently falling behind. We need to stop worrying what every other club are doing and look within ourselves. There's a building job that is required here at United, not patch work. 

 

And we don't have time for that. Look, I pine for when the game was about building a dynasty and seeing it evolve, but it's gone. The game is about money, and who can stockpile the best players.

To build us back up is going to take more money, regardless of how it was miss-spent before. Whatever we do, DOF etc, it's going to take funds to attract the class of player we need to compete again.

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5 minutes ago, PaulMUFC said:

Even with limited options on the bench at least make one fucking change to mix it up. Fucking shit.

 

Even a defender on for Lukuka would be a positive fucking change

Classic Mourunho mate he's almost hanging them out to dry that's the fuckery of his mentallity.

I mentioned earlier he should have been screaming them on instead he sticks 3 fingers up (treble) gesticulating at Juventus fans just because they were winding him up he had time to acknowledge that!!

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Just now, Mickey Mouse said:

Whats all this ballocks about falling behind?

We fell of the the top of fucking Mount Everest when Sir Alex Ferguson retired and we haven't recovered.

We were hanging by a thread before that. No-one anticipated what a shit show we'd make of it in the following years.

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Still can not understand that why not infuse some energy by subs in the second half. 

How much more do we have to bear of this man's foolishness? 

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We have to come back to the coaching, tactics and general quality.

Our approach to games keeps leading to us conceding the 1st goal, which makes it very difficult to win a game.

You can’t question their work ethic or commitment. They all put in a reasonable shift and try to move the ball, but the structure just isn’t in place. That’s also a quality issue. Mourinho bought a good few of these guys. Lindelöf actually delivered for him tonight. Hopefully he can build from this.

We had plenty of the ball after the hour mark, but didn’t know how to break them down. We’ve got to recruit better players and change our approach to the 1st half of games.

There’s a lot to work on. We are a long way from a Champions League final. This will have opened a few of their eyes. The level you need to be at to compete for this trophy.

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9 minutes ago, O said:

We have to come back to the coaching, tactics and general quality.

Our approach to games keeps leading to us conceding the 1st goal, which makes it very difficult to win a game.

You can’t question their work ethic or commitment. They all put in a reasonable shift and try to move the ball, but the structure just isn’t in place. That’s also a quality issue. Mourinho bought a good few of these guys. Lindelöf actually delivered for him tonight. Hopefully he can build from this.

We had plenty of the ball after the hour mark, but didn’t know how to break them down. We’ve got to recruit better players and change our approach to the 1st half of games.

There’s a lot to work on. We are a long way from a Champions League final. This will have opened a few of their eyes. The level you need to be at to compete for this trophy.

We're a long way from even being in it again.

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6 minutes ago, Txrt said:

It's not about recruiting players, though. There are plenty of team with far worse players than us that struggle much less than we do in breaking up teams. That's where a manager comes to be important. We have nothing on the ball, no idea, no right occupation of spaces, no movements, no mechanisms. We have nothing. 

That is what managers are supposed to work on during the week, that's where you need to put the work on the training ground, with the team, and have a clear idea, have clear fundamentals or patrons on how to start playing, whether to start build up with 3, with 4, with fullbacks deep or high, WHATEVER, but something clear. We have nothing, we can't do shit. We change systems because yes, we change personnel because yes, we have no consistency in anything we do when on the ball, nothing makes sense. It's a managerial disaster. There's not a single signature something when on the ball of which you can say "Okay, I see the manager's hand in this team" or where oyu can appreciate there's been a lot of work put in the actual team and how to achieve our goals and fulfill some certain ideas the manager has. We have no ideas, probably the manager has no idea on what to do on the ball; the players look like a bunch who you've just put together for the first time out there every Sunday and it's not about burying players in my opinion. It's stupid to buy players for a guy that can't make them work. 

And that's where I'm coming from. Need to start with a new manager who encourages the team we currently have to try to play much more creatively, with a positive approach.

At the moment we go through the motions without creating much threat until we concede and then in the second half we throw more forward to try and equilise. We are always on the back foot.

That said the standard of our team including Pogba and Sanchez is just nowhere near quality enough. What current player can burst through and make or score a goal from nothing, like Cantona and Best could?

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2 minutes ago, MikeM said:

And we don't have time for that. Look, I pine for when the game was about building a dynasty and seeing it evolve, but it's gone. The game is about money, and who can stockpile the best players.

To build us back up is going to take more money, regardless of how it was miss-spent before. Whatever we do, DOF etc, it's going to take funds to attract the class of player we need to compete again.

Mike gets it.  Hopefully the reality check for the rose tinted tribe  too.    The talk about the Perieras and the Martials and the other so called  "Worldies".   Forget it. its not happening coz it was never going to happen.   The squad had lost its identity the minute Woodbrain was handed the wheel.  Absolutely no long term plan in place so this is the result.  Moyes a cluster fuck.   Van Dross even worse.  Now this.     Said it 2 years ago.  We are 5 or 6 players short of getting anywhere near where we need to be.   In all honesty, apart from Pogba and Big Dave the rest are nowhere near good enough.      Mourinho is sacking himself because he should have been more pro active when he first arrived.  Smalling. Jones. Felliani. Herrera. Mata. Martial. Young.    Should all have been told there's no future for you at United.  He should have made it clear to Woodbrain that they were his terms  and only when they've gone can he begin to rebuild.   It clearly looks like that didn't happen.  So there was only ever going to be one outcome.      Its crystal that he needs to win the champions league to stand any chance of keeping his job. And that's about as likely as Madeleine McCann winning the Derby riding Shergar.

It cant go on and it wont be tolerated.  Its groundhog day.  When we get knocked out he's toast.

That's not a problem.  The big problem is who is going to take on this United job with all the massive pressure that goes with it whilst trying to compete in a very competitive league  whilst trying to off load all the dead wood that is a cancer all at the same time.     Who ever they choose, they'll need to shell out £400 million on literally a complete squad. 

Dark days and darker to come.    

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6 minutes ago, PaulMUFC said:

Pogba was no passenger tonight. Him and Victor were the only two who performed well.

De Gea did well too. Martial was trying to beat his man but, as is always the case, he was constantly having to run back to help out Shaw and then look for the ball deep. Two man midfield made it easier for Juve to stifle counter attacks and keep the ball when necessary. No subs either when the introduction of Fred might have freed up a bit more space to allow Mata to get in amongst them. I still think we'll get out of the group but I can't see us progressing further than round one of the knockout stage. As for Lukaku, I was hoping it was a patch of poor form that he'd play through but he really has been dire.

Edited by Albert Quixall

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Just now, MikeM said:

We were hanging by a thread before that. No-one anticipated what a shit show we'd make of it in the following years.

Perhaps not, but history is repeating itself somewhat. But there are differences. Busby was all but done as manager at Wembley 1968. From what I have read about the Busby years I get the feeling that the years between Munich 58 and Wembley 68, the central plot there was to make amends for what happened in Munich once that was achieved the only was down for Busby considered the team ended in 11th place in 1969. I think best course of action from Busby would have been if he had announced his retirement after winning the European Cup at Wembley. I think Busby staying too long and and interfering with the managements of his first few successor probably was one of the contributions why United fell from grace culminated in the relegation in 1974. Although there were also other contributors as well. United had no hope of recover from that Until everyone from the Busby era had left the dressing room, and until Fergie came along. But Fast forward until Fergie's own retirement. When Ferguson announced his retirement in the days following the title vs Aston Villa. Nobody thought at that moment when the ref blew his final wistlie that this would be our last League title todate. Most felt we were in Pole posistion to retain the league for another year. considering how close we were to win 7 in row a point and GD. And make another crack at CL and FA cup, most probably felt that Fergie shouldn't retire with losing his last two finals in both tournaments. SO everything what we were expecting the following season came to a screaming halt, when we appointed David Moyes. I tried to stay positive when Moyes was announced but we have had plenty of discussion whether Moyes was appointed on Fergie recommend or not. Then it was clear as day the following season Moyes was out of his depth and United sank to a new low, the club hit the panic button has actually stayed there ever since.  and we have had plenty of discussion on how to fix that.

So from Club POV the retirement of both GREAT men probably came at the wrong time for the club but the differences are that they are the polar opposite of each other. So the differences between Busby era and Ferguson era  is that Busby probably stayed way long, while Ferguson should probably have stayed at least few more years.

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24 minutes ago, kevthebad said:

And that's where I'm coming from. Need to start with a new manager who encourages the team we currently have to try to play much more creatively, with a positive approach.

At the moment we go through the motions without creating much threat until we concede and then in the second half we throw more forward to try and equilise. We are always on the back foot.

That said the standard of our team including Pogba and Sanchez is just nowhere near quality enough. What current player can burst through and make or score a goal from nothing, like Cantona and Best could?

I don't think what's needed is encouragement. I'm pretty sure that they all have plenty of that. I think what they need is to be shown or taught a platform that actually allows them to express themselves on the pitch and allows them to show their full potential on the pitch. Encouragement is easy to give, if it was as easy as going in the dressing room and saying "hey, guys, attack from the first minute!" or like some people say here "hey, guys, after scoring one, attack more" being a manager would be easy. However, the other teams play too, and the other teams want to do that themselves too and avoid us doing it, and that's what the managers job is; to create a system, formation, platform, base, foundation or whatever you want to call it that allows us to dominate, be in better positions, be better prepared for the problems that we are going to have to face against every manager, and how to solve it. 

I don't think our squad is bad at all, there's much, much more we can get out of these players. They all have shown they have quality to do much more than what they do now. To win the CL? Maybe not, but let's worry about finding someone that gets the best out of what we have first, we'll worry about getting better pieces later. 

Also, another point that makes little for me is "we don't have players that can score goals from nothing". I've heard this many times here. How many of these are there in the world? Messi, Neymar, Hazard? Ronaldo less each day. The point of having a good manager and being tactically good and playing good football is not having to depend on a guy scoring from nothing. The whole point of being a good team and a well coached and managed team is allowing yourself to be in a position where you'll create chances consistently and you'll have more chances to win the match than the opposite team. If you achieve that, maybe you'll lose one match, or two. But out of a season, you'll be winning the vast majority of the matches. Without having to rely on someone "scoring goals from nothing" every week. That's not a position I'd like to be in.

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Really the only players who didn't look out of their depth were DDG and Pogba in the second half when we attacked. My god that first half was awful. 2nd half we were better - again because of a more proactive approach - but Juve were still comfortable and could have killed us at any time.

It showed just how far we off from the elite if we didn't know it already. We basically had two out of 11 players out there who looked like they had talent on the level of Juve.

I wish we could just throw our players in the bin but it doesn't really work like that - it's a long, long way back for us. Before we know it we'll be looking at a decade without (PL/CL) success and when you reach that point, who knows how long it may take.

Edited by TheManc

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