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Where do Messi and Ronaldo rank among the greats now?

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12 minutes ago, parksey said:

Sounds a fair bit like 2000s Ronaldo to me. Maybe passing aside.

I did love fat Ronaldo, but TFIA is right - he became a shadow of himself well before his time. Definitely nice to see him as the top scorer in World Cups, but I can't hack having him in the top 5 players ever. 

And Ronaldinho was the most naturally gifted and exciting footballer I've ever seen. He made the game a joy.

It doesn’t sound like it all you gimp.

The Madrid Ronaldo makes United’s Ronaldo look amateurish in comparison.

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23 minutes ago, parksey said:

Sounds a fair bit like 2000s Ronaldo to me. Maybe passing aside.

I did love fat Ronaldo, but TFIA is right - he became a shadow of himself well before his time. Definitely nice to see him as the top scorer in World Cups, but I can't hack having him in the top 5 players ever. 

And Ronaldinho was the most naturally gifted and exciting footballer I've ever seen. He made the game a joy.

By 2000s Ronaldo, you mean Cristiano Ronaldo at Utd 04-09, and not Ronaldo at Madrid 02-07?

Utd Ronaldo isn't even close to Brazil Ronaldo. Cristiano's standout season for Utd was 07/08 - Ronaldo had at least three seasons better than that - at Barca, which I still think is the best season by a centre forward I've ever seen, his first Inter season, which was incredible against much tougher defences, and 2002, where he scored 8 goals in one World Cup after being injured for basically two years. His two seasons at PSV, when the Eredivisie was much better than it is now, were arguably as good as well.

Cristiano's second season at Madrid onwards, there's no comparison, but Ronaldo>2000s Cristiano, without doubt. Arguably, 2000s Ronaldo>2000s Cristiano.

 

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2 hours ago, parksey said:

And Ronaldinho was the most naturally gifted and exciting footballer I've ever seen. He made the game a joy.

05/06 that dude was unplayable. For me that has to rank as the best stand alone season from a player. Not in terms of his contribution but the mesmeric range of skills he displayed which wowed the fans. 

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2 hours ago, lucretius said:

By 2000s Ronaldo, you mean Cristiano Ronaldo at Utd 04-09, and not Ronaldo at Madrid 02-07?

Utd Ronaldo isn't even close to Brazil Ronaldo. Cristiano's standout season for Utd was 07/08 - Ronaldo had at least three seasons better than that - at Barca, which I still think is the best season by a centre forward I've ever seen, his first Inter season, which was incredible against much tougher defences, and 2002, where he scored 8 goals in one World Cup after being injured for basically two years. His two seasons at PSV, when the Eredivisie was much better than it is now, were arguably as good as well.

Cristiano's second season at Madrid onwards, there's no comparison, but Ronaldo>2000s Cristiano, without doubt. Arguably, 2000s Ronaldo>2000s Cristiano.

 

I grew up in this era, my favourite players were Ronaldo, Zidane and Rivaldo. People really downplay Ronaldo in the mid to late 90s, he could do it all, dribble passed anyone, shoot with either foot, score from anywhere. His injuries meant he changed his game but he still effected games, just in a different way. Just imagine if he didn't have those injuries. Top 5 of all time IMO. 

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11 hours ago, lucretius said:

By 2000s Ronaldo, you mean Cristiano Ronaldo at Utd 04-09, and not Ronaldo at Madrid 02-07?

Utd Ronaldo isn't even close to Brazil Ronaldo. Cristiano's standout season for Utd was 07/08 - Ronaldo had at least three seasons better than that - at Barca, which I still think is the best season by a centre forward I've ever seen, his first Inter season, which was incredible against much tougher defences, and 2002, where he scored 8 goals in one World Cup after being injured for basically two years. His two seasons at PSV, when the Eredivisie was much better than it is now, were arguably as good as well.

Cristiano's second season at Madrid onwards, there's no comparison, but Ronaldo>2000s Cristiano, without doubt. Arguably, 2000s Ronaldo>2000s Cristiano.

 

Wait sorry my bad. I thought you were using 90s and 2000s as a way to distinguish the two players, not the particular eras of their careers.

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Cristiano Ronaldo for me is the greatest because he is essentially a model of the "ultimate footballer". A phenomenal athlete that can marry the speed of a Luis Ronaldo with the power of Roberto Carlos, and yet have the grace of Maradona at going past people. That's just the physical attributes, add in the prodigious amount of skill he has on the ball, the dizzying foot speed when executing his tricks, the commitment to the athletic lifestyle (doesn't drink or smoke and has negligible body fat) He has superb desire to win, and has adapted his game as he's got older from a prodigious trickster, to a devastating winger and now as a prolific sniper. Aside from perhaps defensively, and his temperament - I don't think there's really a weakness in his overall game. Aerial ability, passing, shooting, set plays, reading and anticipating the game, finishing - he's got it all.

Certainly the best I've seen in my lifetime. Messi is also phenomenal but in a choice between the two, Cristiano is my boy.

9 hours ago, Danny boy said:

I grew up in this era, my favourite players were Ronaldo, Zidane and Rivaldo. People really downplay Ronaldo in the mid to late 90s, he could do it all, dribble passed anyone, shoot with either foot, score from anywhere. His injuries meant he changed his game but he still effected games, just in a different way. Just imagine if he didn't have those injuries. Top 5 of all time IMO. 

You can do that with anyone, imagine how good Gazza could have been had he not lunged at Gary Charles, or Ronaldinho if he didn't like the night life as much as the ball? Ronaldo was my favourite player at his peak. I remember him utterly destroying Scotland in the 1998 World Cup.

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9 hours ago, parksey said:

Wait sorry my bad. I thought you were using 90s and 2000s as a way to distinguish the two players, not the particular eras of their careers.

Sorry, I probably could have been clearer. I should have said 'Ronaldo was far better in the 90s than he was in the 00s'

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Being born in 91, my earliest and first memories about football were from the time Ronaldo Nazario played for Barcelona. And there were plenty of great players in that time, but Ronaldo was always special. Like over the rest. The name itself, Ronaldo. Like more of a mythical creature than a footballer. When I started playing football at around that time, more like futsal actually, and then 7 a side football, everyone wanted to be a striker and everyone wanted to be Ronaldo. I had the Barcelona #9 shirt to train and everything and played up front and wanted to be Ronaldo. Then the WC in France, which is one of my first memories, and again him. He will always be so special for me, much more than any other bar Messi. Probably, and indirectly, the reason why I started playing football and I started enjoying this sport and liking it so much is him. For me and for almost everyone in my age here, I think. 

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13 minutes ago, Danny boy said:

@MikeM the difference is he still achieved everything (bar winning the champions league). Maintained a great goal to game ratio and influence on big games.

I can’t imagine anyone else coming back from a 2.5 year layoff to finish as a top goalscorer at a World Cup and then have 3 25+ goal returns at an elite club.

After his injuries, he wasn’t as explosive anymore. More of a finisher of moves with added skill. Kind of like the current Cristiano Ronaldo.

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4 minutes ago, O said:

I can’t imagine anyone else coming back from a 2.5 year layoff to finish as a top goalscorer at a World Cup and then have 3 25+ goal returns at an elite club.

After his injuries, he wasn’t as explosive anymore. More of a finisher of moves with added skill. Kind of like the current Cristiano Ronaldo.

He was terribly explosive though, what I think he didn't have was the consistency or ability to do it time and time again as he did in his yonger days with Barcelona etc. However, that burst was impossible to defend when he was near the box.

He was decently fat too, still he didn't care, nor did his managers, the man was a talent out of this world, unstoppable power, pace, finishing with both feet, silk with the ball, a great guy, incredible understand of football. Just perfection. A machine, a robot. An absolute scandal of a player. 

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7 minutes ago, Txrt said:

He was terribly explosive though, what I think he didn't have was the consistency or ability to do it time and time again as he did in his yonger days with Barcelona etc. However, that burst was impossible to defend when he was near the box.

He was decently fat too, still he didn't care, nor did his managers, the man was a talent out of this world, unstoppable power, pace, finishing with both feet, silk with the ball, a great guy, incredible understand of football. Just perfection. A machine, a robot. An absolute scandal of a player. 

What I mean is that he wasn’t at it constantly. Picking the ball up 40 yards from goal and going on a mazy run wasn’t as common. He played closer to the goal.

I think the Ronaldo of PSV, Barcelona and his first two seasons at Inter was unplayable. 

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Just now, O said:

What I mean is that he wasn’t at it constantly. Picking the ball up 40 yards from goal and going on a mazy run wasn’t as common. He played closer to the goal.

I think the Ronaldo of PSV, Barcelona and his first two seasons at Inter was unplayable. 

Yeah, definitely agree on that. But those first 3 steps anywhere near the box were just Godly. Even when he couldn't move, he had such a variety of finishes, resources inside the box, calm... Never have I seen anyone so classy and so relaxed and natural in those situations. 

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