Where do Messi and Ronaldo rank among the greats now?

[O 20,759]

They have dominated European football for the best part of the last decade, and some even consider either to be "The GOAT".

But where would you rank them amongst the 10 greatest players of all time?

My own list:

1. Messi
2. Ronaldo de Lima
3. Di Stéfano
4. Cristiano Ronaldo
5. Pelé
6. Beckenbauer
7. Cruyff
8. Maradona
9. Puskás
10. Eusébio 

Players like Garrincha, Djalma Santos, Kocis, Best, Moore, Passarella, Plaltini, Baresi, Matthäus, Koeman, Baggio, Rijkaard, Maldini, Laudrup, Zidane, Cafu, Xavi, Iniesta, Ronaldinho and Henry all miss out.

 

 

[John Locke 1,215]

Very close if not on a par with the greatest.Their professionalism and ability to avoid serious injury have prolonged their careers and maintain excellence which has helped their cause for being ranked with the greatest.

Zidane, ronaldo and ronaldinho are my favourite players of the modern era in terms are natural ability. I don't like comparing the older ones as i can only base my assessment on highlights and this is also a different era.

[lucretius 5,918]

It's very difficult to compare players from different eras. How would Best or Cruijff, the two players from before I was born that I most enjoy watching, have coped with the physical side of the modern game? Heavy drinkers and smokers struggle pretty badly with the aerobic demands of modern football. Obviously they played in a time where defenders could get away with a lot heavier tackling, but also with backpass and offside rules that are very, very different to how the game works now. It's a commonplace joke that Sky invented football in 1992, but the game changed dramatically between the late 80s and mid 90s.

In what is also a team game with different positions, it's more difficult to identify the overall greatest than it is with an idividual sport such as tennis. I think that the average ability of footballers has increased over the past couple of decades, to the point where standouts are very rare. Tactics have also developed to the point where it's very difficult for one player to shine, and strategies to restrict the influence of individual players mean that there are many more fantastic individual seasons, but fewer standout careers.

Nevertheless, occassionally a player comes along who defines or redefines how the sport is played, like Sampras or Federer did. 

I also find that I get older I much less admire players such as Best and Ronaldinho, who squandered their talent, and admire more players like Ronaldo, Giggs, Zanetti, and Maldini who looked after themselves and continued to develop well into their 30s.

Accounting for all of that, I have a slight preference for players who have been influential tactically, and I rate both physical ability and technical skill (in isolation) slightly lower. As highly rated as they are, I'm also loath to compare players like Di Stefano, Pele, Puskas, or Eusebio, who I've seen play maybe a dozen times between them. Best, Cruijff, and Beckenbauer all retired just before I was born, but my dad loved them so I've seen them play quite a lot.

I also definitely think that Messi is on a different level to any other footballer I've ever seen. It's actually unfair to put him in a top ten list, both on him and other players. To that end, I've arranged some of the best players into tiers, rather than a straight 1-10 list. This squeezes in more players and avoids arbitrary distinctions between players who are on more or less the same level.

Tier 1: Messi

Tier 2: Pele, Ronaldo, Cruijff, Cristiano Ronaldo, Maradona

Tier 3: Best, Beckenbauer, Platini, Baresi, Baggio, Van Basten, Rijkaard, Zidane

Tier 4: Maldini, Gullit, Romario, Hagi, Bergkamp, Henry, Seedorf, Iniesta, Xavi

It gets pretty messy around the fourth tier. Giggs and Scholes could definitely be in there, Ronaldinho and Cafu too; perhaps players like Figo or Rui Costa, or Ibramiovic could make a case to be included as well, but it quickly descends into another tier with standout players like Shevchenko, Rivaldo, Zanetti, Shearer etc. I don't think you can talk about the all-time greats without the first three tiers, and I think you can argue for that fourth tier as well. That's without getting into where players like Puskas or Garrincha fit in - or Zico, Keegan, Charlton or any other number of players before my time. Perhaps with a bit of perspective Iniesta and Xavi will be higher rated, or someone like Modric will make it into the list. Maybe consistently excellent players like Lahm or Alonso will be valued more highly. Very difficult to say.

 

[TFIA 15,140]

I don't think Brazilian Ronaldo was ever even close to Cristiano. The latter's consistency at club level is just not comparable. R9 was often plagued with injuries and was criticized often during his spells at Inter and Madrid which people forget. Talent wise they're not too far apart but in terms of what they've gotten from it it's not close IMO. 

In terms of players I've seen there's a top 2. And the rest. And the rest are further away than people make out. They've broken football.

[butler 2,005]

Anyone for one moment thinks that Cr7 should not be at the top off the pile..needs to be locked up in a mental asylum

Cr7 has done it here and there..and he would have done it anywhere

[O 20,759]

48 minutes ago, TFIA said:

I don't think Brazilian Ronaldo was ever even close to Cristiano. The latter's consistency at club level is just not comparable. R9 was often plagued with injuries and was criticized often during his spells at Inter and Madrid which people forget. Talent wise they're not too far apart but in terms of what they've gotten from it it's not close IMO. 

In terms of players I've seen there's a top 2. And the rest. And the rest are further away than people make out. They've broken football.

Ronaldo de Lima was entertaining. Ronaldo is a finisher of moves. The guy was dribbling past cunts like Baresi for fun, in a very defensive league.

Talent wise, he’s probably better than Messi.

The injuries are the only reason why he isn’t The GOAT.

Look at the clips of him ffs. A scandal.

Cristiano fans needs to be packed up and sent to Madeira. Shower of cunts.

[TFIA 15,140]

24 minutes ago, O said:

Ronaldo de Lima was entertaining. Ronaldo is a finisher of moves. The guy was dribbling past cunts like Baresi for fun, in a very defensive league.

Talent wise, he’s probably better than Messi.

The injuries are the only reason why he isn’t The GOAT.

Look at the clips of him ffs. A scandal.

Cristiano fans needs to be packed up and sent to Madeira. Shower of cunts.

Revisionism at its finest. 

You’ve never seen a Cristiano highlight reel then? You could have a 7 minute one of him torching Alves and Pique alone. The best of R9 is currently seen on YouTube. You watch Ronaldo every week and scrutinise every move. You’ve been shown up for this bullshit in the past, Pogba being the most obvious example.

C. Ronaldo at his peak was a far more complete player – Scored every type of goal, different level of athlete, played in more positions. It’s only nostalgia that seems to keep them close. R9 had one season that was even close to Ronaldo’s best scoring seasons, as a striker whose main contribution was goals. Fuck out of here with this shit.

C. Ronaldo is still underappreciated. Still the player people love to hate. He wont get the credit he deserves until his retirement. 
 

Edited April 5, 2018 by TFIA

[O 20,759]

@lucretius

Yeah, I generally agree. It’s better to compare players by the decade.

Because of the ever changing rules. A lot of the historic defenders of the game would shit themselves without being able to pass back to their keeper. That’s why I think guys like Nesta, Rio, Piqué and Ramos deserve more credit. Everything in modern football is stacked in favour of the attacker. He can come back from an offside position to finish off moves.

If you’re looking at the 50’s; Di Stefano is a clear winner. 

The 60’s; Maybe Pelé or Eusébio.

The 70’s; Beckenbauer 

The 80’s; Maradona

The 90’s; Ronaldo de Lima

The 00’s; Quite open really.

2010 until now; Messi or Ronaldo

[O 20,759]

1 minute ago, TFIA said:

Revisionism at its finest. 

You’ve never seen a Cristiano highlight reel then? You could have a 7 minute one of him torching Alves and Pique alone. The best of R9 is currently seen on YouTube. You watch Ronaldo every week and scrutinise every move. You’ve been shown up for this bullshit in the past, Pogba being the most obvious example.

Ronaldo at his peak was a far more complete player – Scored every type of goal, different level of athlete, played in more positions. It’s only nostalgia that seems to keep them close. He had one season that was even close to Ronaldo’s best scoring seasons, as a striker whose main contribution was goals. Fuck out of here with this shit.

Ronaldo is still underappreciated. Still the player people love to hate. He wont get the credit he deserves until his retirement. 
 

The best highlight reel of Cristiano would be his early work, when he didn’t know what a cross was and stepovers were all the rage. But it looked good. 

Pogba is shit and you have stopped posting since this became known, so I’m not sure where you’re going with that.

Athlete. LOL. You said it, not me. Where was that one season? Spain. Where do Messi and Ronaldo play? Spain. He was putting up ridiculous numbers in the best league of the decade. The top 10 teams were all competing for trophies domestically and abroad.

Cristiano has been the most advanced attacker at Real for years now. Benzema plays behind him and occupies defenders, so that Ronaldo can exploit the space and ATTACK it. It works very well. He has become the complete centre forward, but it’s more about being efficient than entertaining. He puts teams to the sword, but he’s not a dribbler anymore. That is why Messi will continue to be the better player, as he can still beat a man, create chances from outside the box, and score a healthy amount of goals.

If anything, these past 3-4 seasons have guaranteed Ronaldo a seat at the table. He wouldn’t have been in my top 10 without them, so there you go. Ronaldo receives a lot of credit, hence the Ballon d’Or wins. And he’s actually deserved every win in his career, bar one.

I would say Cristiano is probably the most effective player in history. The finishing of a classic 90’s/early 00’s forward combined with electric speed and better ball striking technique.

At this stage, I would accept a person picking him over Messi. They’d be wrong. But it’s now an actual debate. His body of work stands up to Messi, minus the added entertaininment.

[Txrt 12,577]

This is not logic, and I haven't watched many of the earlier ones, but for me Messi is first, and Cristiano Ronaldo is second.

Talent wise, it's another story. I have Ronaldinho, Ronaldo fenomeno, etc up there too. But when it comes to consistency, winning, scoring, assisting, everything, and doing over a prolonged period; I think Messi and Ronaldo are the best. Of course, I personally rate Messi a level higher than anyone else. 

[butler 2,005]

Why I rate Cr7 over all off them..it' his consistency. .and too do a bicycle at this age..although he still looks a teenager..it's very admirable..I think the best is yet too come...when he showboats. .in America. ...but not just yet.

[Txrt 12,577]

1 hour ago, TFIA said:

I don't think Brazilian Ronaldo was ever even close to Cristiano. The latter's consistency at club level is just not comparable. R9 was often plagued with injuries and was criticized often during his spells at Inter and Madrid which people forget. Talent wise they're not too far apart but in terms of what they've gotten from it it's not close IMO. 

I think fat Ronaldo is probably the most naturally gifted footballer I've ever seen, apart from Messi. I think he's more talented than Cristiano Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, and everyone else. However, injuries never let him fulfill his potential, his problems never let him be consistent and stay at the top for as long as Cristiano has. 

Ronaldo might be whatever, but if you leave everything to a side, and just analyse Ronaldo, the footballer, he's a perfect example for everyone. Of course, taking out a couple needless reds, but when it comes to committment, competitive spirit, desire to improve and win, just control over his life in order to perform always, taking care of his body, even know learning he has to sacrifice a decent part of his year to be in top form when the real big matches come, everything he does is great. These last two months he's not even selfish on the pitch, which is something I thought I'd never get to witness. 

[lucretius 5,918]

1 hour ago, TFIA said:

I don't think Brazilian Ronaldo was ever even close to Cristiano. The latter's consistency at club level is just not comparable. R9 was often plagued with injuries and was criticized often during his spells at Inter and Madrid which people forget. Talent wise they're not too far apart but in terms of what they've gotten from it it's not close IMO. 

In terms of players I've seen there's a top 2. And the rest. And the rest are further away than people make out. They've broken football.

90s Ronaldo was far better than 00s Ronaldo.

He changed how the game was played. In order to be in the discussion about being the best striker, you now had to have the movement and finishing ability of Romario and Van Basten, the power of Batistuta and Shearer, the dribbling ability of Stoichkov and Laudrup, at least as good a passer as Cantona.

You've hit on why I rank Ronaldinho so much lower than others, though.

[Txrt 12,577]

I would some day want to watch Ronaldo and Messi play for the same team, even if it was in a friendly or for charity or anything. That has to happen.

[O 20,759]

8 minutes ago, lucretius said:

90s Ronaldo was far better than 00s Ronaldo.

He changed how the game was played. In order to be in the discussion about being the best striker, you now had to have the movement and finishing ability of Romario and Van Basten, the power of Batistuta and Shearer, the dribbling ability of Stoichkov and Laudrup, at least as good a passer as Cantona.

You've hit on why I rank Ronaldinho so much lower than others, though.

I think you have to take into account the upbringing of 90% of South American players. They come from nothing. They are the support system and meal ticket for an entire community; their family. To them, it’s often a financial choice over football reasons.

Oscar has recently said that he doesn’t care about not being called to the National team. He’s doing what’s best for him in the long term i.e. financially stable for life.

There was a good piece on Neymar before Christmas. About just how many people he supports back home. He’s like a mini bank to his family and relations. There’s always pressure on him to perform. The PSG move was obviously a financial one.

Ronaldinho achieved a lot from 2002 to 2007. He won everything possible, so at least he retired a rich, successful man. The only regret he might have is not playing well in the final against Arsenal. That was an opportunity to further cement his legacy.

14 minutes ago, Txrt said:

I would some day want to watch Ronaldo and Messi play for the same team, even if it was in a friendly or for charity or anything. That has to happen.

Ronaldo becomes his Jordi Alba.

[Txrt 12,577]

2 minutes ago, O said:

Ronaldo becomes his Jordi Alba.

Imagine, 0-0 borefest.

[lucretius 5,918]

45 minutes ago, O said:

@lucretius

Yeah, I generally agree. It’s better to compare players by the decade.

Because of the ever changing rules. A lot of the historic defenders of the game would shit themselves without being able to pass back to their keeper. That’s why I think guys like Nesta, Rio, Piqué and Ramos deserve more credit. Everything in modern football is stacked in favour of the attacker. He can come back from an offside position to finish off moves.

If you’re looking at the 50’s; Di Stefano is a clear winner. 

The 60’s; Maybe Pelé or Eusébio.

The 70’s; Beckenbauer 

The 80’s; Maradona

The 90’s; Ronaldo de Lima

The 00’s; Quite open really.

2010 until now; Messi or Ronaldo

Cruijff for player of the 70s, I think.

The 00s are difficult because you have the tail end of many great 90s careers, and then the rise of Ronaldo and Messi at the end of the decade. If you look at the Ballon d'Or winners from 2000-07 (Figo, Owen, Ronaldo, Nedved, Shevchenko, Ronaldinho, Cannavaro, Kaka), only Ronaldo stands out, and even that was a reward for winning the World Cup - Zidane was better that season, at least in my memory. I love Figo, Nedved, and Shevchenko. The others were very good in shorter spells, too. But they aren't clear standouts.

For me, the best player of the early 00s was Zidane. Shevchenko and Henry were close for a couple of seasons each, then Ronaldo and Messi took over. I think Messi of 2009-13 will go down as the greatest ever, but then my dad thought the same about Best, then Cruijff, then Van Basten. Still think it was ridiculous that Messi didn't win the Ballon d'Or in 2013.

 

[dualtamac 5,239]

I am now firmy of the belief that Leo Messi is the greatest footballer of all-time. He's untouchable for me, for now. I was also late to admit it but I honestly don't think any arguments can be made.

I'd also rather do it by decade

50s - Di Stefano, Puskas, Garrincha
60s - Pelé, Eusebio, Best
70s - Cruyff, Beckenbauer
80s - Maradona, Platini
90s - Ronaldo, Maldini
00s - Zidane, Ronaldinho
10s - Messi, C. Ronaldo

[lucretius 5,918]

3 minutes ago, O said:

I think you have to take into account the upbringing of 90% of South American players. They come from nothing. They are the support system and meal ticket for an entire community; their family. To them, it’s often a financial choice over football reasons.

Oscar has recently said that he doesn’t care about not being called to the National team. He’s doing what’s best for him in the long term i.e. financially stable for life.

There was a good piece on Neymar before Christmas. About just how many people he supports back home. He’s like a mini bank to his family and relations. There’s always pressure on him to perform. The PSG move was obviously a financial one.

Ronaldinho achieved a lot from 2002 to 2007. He won everything possible, so at least he retired a rich, successful man. The only regret he might have is not playing well in the final against Arsenal. That was an opportunity to further cement his legacy.

Ronaldo becomes his Jordi Alba.

If people want to priortise money, I don't blame them. It's a short career.

Still, £100,000 a week is over £2.5m a year after tax. Buy a £2m house, invest £500,000 and then £50,000 per month, and it'll be paying hundreds of thousands in interest alone after a couple of years. Millions after ten years.

Footballers should really be getting financial guidance, so that they can focus on their career.

Ronaldinho achieved a lot, but he could have been so much better. I can't count him in the same level as Iniesta or Henry, while some people would insist he was the best player of the 00s.

[O 20,759]

2 minutes ago, lucretius said:

If people want to priortise money, I don't blame them. It's a short career.

Still, £100,000 a week is over £2.5m a year after tax. Buy a £2m house, invest £500,000 and then £50,000 per month, and it'll be paying hundreds of thousands in interest alone after a couple of years. Millions after ten years.

Footballers should really be getting financial guidance, so that they can focus on their career.

Ronaldinho achieved a lot, but he could have been so much better. I can't count him in the same level as Iniesta or Henry, while some people would insist he was the best player of the 00s.

I think Ronaldinho’s greatest legacy is the impact he had on the generation after him.

Every player wanted to be a no.10 because  of him. They still do. Mata, Silva, Özil, De Bruyne, James, etc. They would have all been teenagers watching his Barça side.

None of them have an ounce of his natural skill, though. They’re more refined players tactically because of good coaching at youth level. Less off the cuff. But the influence is there. Our own Angel Gomes tries to emulate him.

[O 20,759]

25 minutes ago, Txrt said:

Imagine, 0-0 borefest.

I actually think they’ll be good friends when they’re retired. They’ll be attending all of these FIFA and UEFA events together. Possibly punditry together at World Cups, Champions League finals, etc.

Ronaldo’s son’s favourite player is Messi, I believe.

Once the competitive element is taken away, they can relax more. Bobby Charlton is/was good friends with Beckenbauer, Pelé, Puskás and Eusébio in retirement. You meet each other at these events and discuss the good ol’ days.

Ferguson is friendly with most of the managers now. Even Wenger. 

[Txrt 12,577]

1 minute ago, O said:

I actually think they’ll be good friends when they’re retired. They’ll be attending all of these FIFA and UEFA events together. Possibly punditry together at World Cups, Champions League finals, etc.

Ronaldo’s son’s favourite player is Messi, I believe.

Once the competitive element is taken away, they can relax more. Bobby Charlton is/was good friends with Beckenbauer, Pelé, Puskás and Eusébio in retirement. You meet each other at these events and discuss the good ol’ days.

Ferguson is friendly with most of the managers now. Even Wenger. 

Everyone says they have quite a healthy relationship between them when they have to attend anything together. They're always respectful to each other, and they always have good words about the other. 

[O 20,759]

2 minutes ago, Txrt said:

Everyone says they have quite a healthy relationship between them when they have to attend anything together. They're always respectful to each other, and they always have good words about the other. 

They have each other to thank for their careers. They wouldn’t be half as motivated without one outdoing the other every second season. 

[butler 2,005]

3 hours ago, O said:

I think you have to take into account the upbringing of 90% of South American players. They come from nothing. They are the support system and meal ticket for an entire community; their family. To them, it’s often a financial choice over football reasons.

Oscar has recently said that he doesn’t care about not being called to the National team. He’s doing what’s best for him in the long term i.e. financially stable for life.

There was a good piece on Neymar before Christmas. About just how many people he supports back home. He’s like a mini bank to his family and relations. There’s always pressure on him to perform. The PSG move was obviously a financial one.

Ronaldinho achieved a lot from 2002 to 2007. He won everything possible, so at least he retired a rich, successful man. The only regret he might have is not playing well in the final against Arsenal. That was an opportunity to further cement his legacy.

Ronaldo becomes his Jordi Alba.

Or Messi becomes, his Benzema.

[parksey 1,082]

18 hours ago, lucretius said:

He changed how the game was played. In order to be in the discussion about being the best striker, you now had to have the movement and finishing ability of Romario and Van Basten, the power of Batistuta and Shearer, the dribbling ability of Stoichkov and Laudrup, at least as good a passer as Cantona.

Sounds a fair bit like 2000s Ronaldo to me. Maybe passing aside.

I did love fat Ronaldo, but TFIA is right - he became a shadow of himself well before his time. Definitely nice to see him as the top scorer in World Cups, but I can't hack having him in the top 5 players ever. 

And Ronaldinho was the most naturally gifted and exciting footballer I've ever seen. He made the game a joy.