Red4Life

A team built from players from these shores...

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I have always believed we need to build a team made up of players from the UK and Ireland.

We need players who understand our history and what this club means to our supporters. At the core its Still the local community that gives the strength. Seeing players like McTominay , Lindgad and Rashford coming through makes me believe again.

You can train and teach young players. But in the end the difference is the passion and belief. Why they pull on that shirt.

It IS possible to win the lot with players from 'these shores'.

And managers we hire need to understand our history and culture.

I remember complaining about the passion and my wife looked up from what she was doing and said. 

"We  we are no longer an English club are we? Just look at all these foreign players."

Edited by Red4Life

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The only good thing about British players is that name Manchester United means something to them.

They're therefore more likely to remain loyal and stay at the club for several years.

Not always a good thing. Smalling has been here for 8 years this summer.

I do think every top club in England should have a few British players in the side, though. We have plenty. Ferguson used to identify the best young British talents and sign them up young.

Sessegnon, Gomes, O'Connor, McTominay, Rashford, Jones and Shaw would be a decent group of British/Irish players.

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I've always been a massive fan of British teams having a good amount of British and Irish players in their senior squads.

It's good that we do have regular British first team players like Shaw, Rashford, Jones, McTominay, Lingard etc. 

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3 hours ago, Red4Life said:

I have always believed we need to build a team made up of players from the UK and Ireland.

I'm completely onboard with this and everything written in the OP. United used to be the pride of Britain (and Ireland) and there was a time in the 00s we laughed at Arsenal for becoming a team of foreigners.

It isn't about nationalism for the sake of it. As @Red4Life said, it's about the passion and commitment at the core of the club. It removes the language and cultural barriers that lead to dressing room cliques. It prevents players getting dragged off to far away friendlies in South America, Africa or Asia mid-season. It ensures loyalty when big clubs and the Madrid/Barcelona sunshine come calling.

There's a reason, in his book, Fergie described the young British and Irish players who came through, not only the class of '92 but the Fletchers, O'Sheas, Browns and Evans as the blood of the club. There's a reason he broke transfer records to bring Pallister, Keane, Cole, Rio and Rooney to the club. I wish that had continued with greater efforts by the club to sign the likes of Coleman, Bale and Kane. 

Of course we also need some of the very best/top foreign talent to bring the team to an elite level, but they should be the stardust on a platform of homegrown players, not the core of the club.

PS The same goes for the manager - United had always appointed British managers until Van Gaal.

Edited by gav81

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1 minute ago, gav81 said:

I'm completely onboard with this and everything written in the OP. United used to be the pride of Britain (and Ireland) and there was a time in the 00s we laughed at Arsenal for becoming a team of foreigners.

It isn't about nationalism for the sake of it. As @Red4Life said, it's about the passion and commitment at the core of the club. It's removes the language and cultural barriers that lead to dressing room cliques. It prevents players getting dragged off to far away friendlies in South America, Africa or Asia mid-season. It ensures loyalty when big clubs and the Madrid/Barcelona sunshine come calling.

There's a reason, in his book, Fergie described the young British and Irish players who came through, not only the class of '92 but the Fletchers, O'Sheas, Browns and Evans as the blood of the club. There's a reason he broke transfer records to bring Pallister, Keane, Cole, Rio and Rooney to the club. I wish that had continued with greater efforts by the club to sign the likes of Coleman, Bale and Kane. 

Of course we also need some of the very best/top foreign talent to bring the team to an elite level, but they should be the stardust on a platform of homegrown players.

But then we evolved and became less xenophobic. 

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Now and then when I look at the Treble Winning team, I feel we moved away from what brought us to the most succesful season in our history. The core of the team was from Uk and Ireland. Of course it took a manager like Ferguson to mould that team.

Its not about being anti foreigners.

And I refuse to believe that British and Irish players are in any way less capable than others. I dont wish to get into a debate about the failure of the local FAs that has resulted in us being so far behind the Germans and Spanish for example. That honestly is a seperate and valid debate.

To start down this road, will need sacrificie and perhaps years in the wilderness.

Short term success always comes at a cost. Losing what made this club the most popular in the world even Then.

The name went on to harvest all those souls around the world.

Football is not a complicated game. And the techniques of the best teams are Not unteacheable.

Personally I fear the obscene money in the game that is already destroying English football (the smaller clubs are pretty much barren ground these days. btw this is with the help of our wonderful FA)

The bigger clubs will soon be around in name only.

It is only a matter of time before the club most of us older supporters grew up following will be no more.

Like Phil said, everything comes to an end.

 

 

Looking at the current team, the passion funnily enough...last season...came from a Spaniard.

No leaders, no passion. Just  a few prima donnas prancing around. 

 

Funny that I bring this up on a day when we had a memorable victory. But I suppose it is on days like this I look back. 

You succeed when you achieve for Others ...the supporters.

Otherwise it is just emptiness.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Red4Life

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1 hour ago, O said:

But then we evolved and became less xenophobic. 

It's nothing to do with that 😂

I absolutely loved Schmeichel, Cantona, Kanchelskis, Yorke, Nistelrooy, Ronaldo and on and on.

But it's about having a solid identity at the heart of the club to set the example for the long term; a core of players with real passion for the badge, fans and professional success, not only the money.

It was funny to see Arsenal evolve into oblivion - it's no coincidence that after three league titles, eight consecutive top two finishes, with players like Seaman, Keown, Dixon, Adams, Cole and Parlour setting the tone, following the short lived 'invincibles' they now haven't won the league in 15 years!

These are the reasons Fergie believed in his British signings and academy players so much, and it wasn't because he was xenophobic.

Edited by gav81

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2 minutes ago, gav81 said:

It's nothing to do with that 1f602.png

I absolutely loved Schmeichel, Cantona, Kanchelskis, Yorke, Nistelrooy, Ronaldo and on and on.

But it's about having a solid identity at the heart of the club to set the example for the long term; a core of players with real passion for the badge, fans and professional success, not only the money.

It was funny to see Arsenal evolve into oblivion - it's no coincidence that after three league titles, eight consecutive top two finishes, with players like Seaman, Keown, Dixon, Adams, Cole and Parlour seeing the tone, following the sort lived 'invincibles' they now haven't won the league in 15 years!

These are the reasons Fergie believed in his British signings and academy players so much, and it wasn't because he was xenophobic.

giphy.gif

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The UK and Ireland has produced some of the finest talent - on the field and in the dugout, the game has seen. Busby and Shankly were years ahead of their time and the League didn't care for it. The league wanted to ban the league champions from playing in Europe because of the 'wogs and dagos,' amongst other things. The European Cup stayed in England from 1977 to 1982, won by teams predominately comprised of men from the British Isles. Celtic won it in 1967 with lads from Glasgow and in 1968, we took the crown with a great mixture of Englishmen, Scots, and Irish. Bob Paisley outfoxed the best Europe had to offer and so did Brian Clough. Those man had 'intelligence and tactical discipline' in spades. So did men like Bill Nicholson and Jock Stein.

Almost forgot (shame on me) Sir Alf. He failed to evolve after 1970 when men like Rinus Michels were revolutionizing the game. Funny how Ramsey went from innovator to has-been in just a few years. You could argue that he had lesser players than 1966 and 1970 but I think it's more than that. Other managers adapted, adopted, and improved. Ramsey didn't.

Edited by Albert Quixall

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Kane 

Bale alli lingard

Dier mctominay

Shaw evans stones coleman

Butland

Subs...Jones rashford Wilshire ramsey

Sterling delph 

 

Surely that england team 2004-6 wouldve been a good bet for the title. in the same way a 90s british team with giggs irwin keane in the mix wouldve been well was more or less a title winning side. Nowadays the talent is a bit more thin on the ground but top four would be a reasonable bet.

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I don't think anyone is suggesting the team should be entirely British or that it's even possible. We'd have been screwed at times this season without De Gea, Matic and Martial.

It's more players like Lindelof, Darmian, Herrera, Fellaini, Blind and Mata - there are British equivalents to these players. Even Lukaku, Sanchez and Pogba, who wouldn't swap all three for Kane and Bale?

Also Keano and Giggsy for a British Isles management dream team would be nice!

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Overpriced. You pretty much have to uncover a lower league gem like Alli or have the players come through your academy unless you're happy with overpaying for players whose talent can be bought from abroad for about half the price. 

A core of 4-5 quality British players would be great, but increasingly unlikely. Shaw is still playing second fiddle to a 32 year old Ashley Young, we've just signed a player who will give Rashford less game time and we'll probably sign someone else in the summer who will do the same. Lingard is shit and I doubt McTominay will continue to feature much next season,.

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2 hours ago, aardvarked said:

Overpriced. You pretty much have to uncover a lower league gem like Alli or have the players come through your academy unless you're happy with overpaying for players whose talent can be bought from abroad for about half the price. 

A core of 4-5 quality British players would be great, but increasingly unlikely. Shaw is still playing second fiddle to a 32 year old Ashley Young, we've just signed a player who will give Rashford less game time and we'll probably sign someone else in the summer who will do the same. Lingard is shit. I doubt McTominay will continue to feature much next season,.

Lingard is shit?? wow.

The problem with finding decent players from lower leagues is many players are being grabbed by the bigger clubs....And discarded just as quickly. Very little money trickling down to these clubs. Also the 'need' for immediate success causing bigger clubs to pay over what they are worth.

I don't agree players coming through the Academy wont make it. McTominay certainly has the potential to succeed here. A couple of years. Same witrh Rashford. Think Shaw will take over from Young next season.

But will the owners be prepared to wait? Fergie had time to build. We are being squeezed from both ends. Ownership and lasck of investments in local talent. It is healthier to allow players to develop in teh lower leagues and then move upwards. All benefit that way.

 

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33 minutes ago, Red4Life said:

Lingard is shit?? wow.

The problem with finding decent players from lower leagues is many players are being grabbed by the bigger clubs....And discarded just as quickly. Very little money trickling down to these clubs. Also the 'need' for immediate success causing bigger clubs to pay over what they are worth.

I don't agree players coming through the Academy wont make it. McTominay certainly has the potential to succeed here. A couple of years. Same witrh Rashford. Think Shaw will take over from Young next season.

But will the owners be prepared to wait? Fergie had time to build. We are being squeezed from both ends. Ownership and lasck of investments in local talent. It is healthier to allow players to develop in teh lower leagues and then move upwards. All benefit that way.

 

I'm being hyperbolic but he's not close to being good enough to be a first team regular, he is a good impact sub if he is happy with that role. 

Not sure McTominay has really shown anything beyond being a decent young player. Remains to be seen if he'll elevate himself to another level.

Rashford will have to make the decision whether he wants to wait around and take a chance that he'll eventually be trusted enough to become a key player, rather than being rotated on a whim and risk his development stalling as a result. 

Shaw should have taken over already. 

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1 hour ago, Ace-7 said:

Manchester United should always go for the best of British and Irish talents no question

Fergie always did

Biggest miss imo was Paul Gascoigne closely followed by Alan Shearer..

Might have bagged the CL before 1999 with Shearer in the team, but, there again, we wouldn't have signed Yorke.

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2 hours ago, aardvarked said:

Overpriced. You pretty much have to uncover a lower league gem like Alli or have the players come through your academy unless you're happy with overpaying for players whose talent can be bought from abroad for about half the price. 

A core of 4-5 quality British players would be great, but increasingly unlikely. Shaw is still playing second fiddle to a 32 year old Ashley Young, we've just signed a player who will give Rashford less game time and we'll probably sign someone else in the summer who will do the same. Lingard is shit. I doubt McTominay will continue to feature much next season,.

Aside from "Lingard is shit" I agree with every word.

 

I just love this romantic notion some of our fans are clinging to.. Must be lovely to be back in the 1990's. As it goes, we actually do better than most of the other top clubs by bringing players through the youth system, McTominay has probably saved us £30m upwards on a defensive midfielder.

Obviously the solution is to bring Roy Keane back. :)

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1 minute ago, aardvarked said:

I'm being hyperbolic but he's not close to being good enough to be a first team regular, he is a good impact sub if he is happy with that role. 

Not sure McTominay has really shown anything beyond being a decent young player. Remains to be seen if he'll elevate himself to another level.

Rashford will have to make the decision whether he wants to wait around and take a chance that he'll eventually be trusted enough to become a key player, rather than being rotated on a whim and risk his development stalling as a result. 

Shaw should have taken over already. 

McTominay's improvement over the space of a couple of months has been self-evident. At this time, he is, perhaps, a decent young player, but he played Hazard like a veteran. Fergie, apparently, rates him and you don't get praise higher than that.

Agree with you about Shaw. As for Rashford, I think Martial will leave at the end of this season and Rashford will step up.

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4 hours ago, Albert Quixall said:

Might have bagged the CL before 1999 with Shearer in the team, but, there again, we wouldn't have signed Yorke.

I'm certain we would've got to the final in 1997 and probably won it if we had Shearer

Those Dortmund semi-final misses still rankles me

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33 minutes ago, MikeM said:

Or a certain Norwegian kid that no-one had ever heard of.

You are my Solskjaer,

My Ole Solskjaer!

You make my happy,

When skies are grey!

Oh Alan Shearer, 

Was fuckin dearer,

So please don't take my Solskjaer away!

😍

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