Luke Shaw, Make or Break?  

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  1. 1. Will Shaw ever make it as a United player?



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The only surprise is that he's lasted as long as he has. It's been pretty obvious from a very early stage that Mourinho didn't rate him, and I was convinced we'd sign a LB last summer. Those comments are scathing, and it's not the first time he's made such strong comments about him.

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Disgusting from Mourinho. 

I’ve always liked Jose but the way he has publicly spoken of Shaw over the last year or so is horrible. 

Where were these outbursts at the many average to terrible performances that Sanchez, Smalling, Young etc have put in this season? It’s double standards and I hope for Shaw’s sake he leaves in the summer and finds another club. 

Pathetic. 

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I don't actually rate Shaw, and never have. I think if Pochettino, Van Gaal, and Mourinho have all questioned him then there's definitely something problematic.

That said, I don't think he's any worse a fullback than Fabian Delph, who is managing ok.

And worse, Mourinho's handling of him has been appalling. If this was a real job, it would be a case of constructive dismissal. Absolutely indefensible.

 

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12 hours ago, Munroe said:

I thought he was one of our better players in the first half. Valencia was definitely worse, he and Bailly had a couple of shaky moments in each half.

I thought Shaw did alright too. It was his dribble to the box and pass which gave Matic the space to cross for Lukaku's goal.

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not happy with the way Shaw is being treated that said i fucking hate a manager that publicly puts down a player.

why cant Jose keep it behind closed doors?.

i think Shaw is a hot prospect but part of me cant help wonder what it is that Jose and other managers see in him.

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49 minutes ago, Kermit1981 said:

It's fucking ludicrous to call this work place bullying. It's a player getting called out for their performance not being tripped up and having his lunch money stolen. 

If it was a real job he would almost certainly win a constructive dismissal claim. He's being treated substantially differently to other players who he's not performing any worse than, and singled out for criticism. It's textbook workplace bullying.

3 hours ago, peterswellman said:

You would be fired in most jobs if you are unable to fulfill basic requirements.

A professional athlete should stay in shape, who knew?

The club set a precedent by allowing Rooney to report back overweight for however many years. I don't, and never have, rated Shaw, but I don't think he's any worse than half a dozen other players in the squad who have managed to play terribly, not get dragged off at half time, and not put through the wringer in public several times.

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1 hour ago, lucretius said:

The club set a precedent by allowing Rooney to report back overweight for however many years. I don't, and never have, rated Shaw, but I don't think he's any worse than half a dozen other players in the squad who have managed to play terribly, not get dragged off at half time, and not put through the wringer in public several times.

I guess with him Mourinho is sick of it. I'd be very surprised if Mourinho hasn't spoken to him in private about it first. It irks me his ill-discipline so can only imagine how all the other managers have left about him, particularly considering his talent. I do think it's attitude thing with Shaw and many other managers he has worked with have stated the same. 

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3 hours ago, lucretius said:

If it was a real job he would almost certainly win a constructive dismissal claim. He's being treated substantially differently to other players who he's not performing any worse than, and singled out for criticism. It's textbook workplace bullying.

The club set a precedent by allowing Rooney to report back overweight for however many years. I don't, and never have, rated Shaw, but I don't think he's any worse than half a dozen other players in the squad who have managed to play terribly, not get dragged off at half time, and not put through the wringer in public several times.

If we were to assume that your performance being discussed in public was the norm I still don't think this comes close to bullying. He said he took him off because he felt every time they attacked that side the cross came in and a dangerous situation happened. That was Jose's assessment that he gave in answer to a direct question about why Shaw was subbed. He didn't bring Shaw up out of nowhere to rag on him for the performance. 

 

As for singled out? Did you miss how much he went on about it being McTominay's worst game by far and how awful his passing was and that it was only his attitude that saved him. How about him saying how Valencia was also gash but Jose didn't want to make 2 subs at half time and felt Valencia had been a bit better defensively. He basically said that Matic was the only player he thought played well enough but sure he somehow singled out Shaw while also criticising 2 other players. 

I get Shaw is a likeable guy and Jose is very easy to dislike but to call a manager giving his assessment of a player bullying if it's negative is ludicrous. 

Should Jose answer direct questions about why he subbed a player with saying "sorry I can't answer that incase I am seen as a bully" 

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4 hours ago, Kermit1981 said:

If we were to assume that your performance being discussed in public was the norm I still don't think this comes close to bullying. He said he took him off because he felt every time they attacked that side the cross came in and a dangerous situation happened. That was Jose's assessment that he gave in answer to a direct question about why Shaw was subbed. He didn't bring Shaw up out of nowhere to rag on him for the performance. 

Obviously he was going to be asked about it. Taking an uninjured player off at half time isn't a regular occurence, especially one that you've repeatedly criticised.

How often do managers say 'I took him off at half time because he was playing badly', or 'he was basically begging to be substituted'? How regularly do managers actually criticise their own players the way Mourinho has criticised Shaw?

How often do managers take the credit for everything a player does, like Mourinho did last April when he said he made all Shaw's decisions for him during a match? Was that just him responding to a question? Completely unnecessary. Completely unprofessional. What other managers do that?

How many other players in the squad has Mourinho repeatedly said are doing well, then dropped them? Then publicly criticised despite not actually playing in between?

 

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As for singled out? Did you miss how much he went on about it being McTominay's worst game by far and how awful his passing was and that it was only his attitude that saved him. How about him saying how Valencia was also gash but Jose didn't want to make 2 subs at half time and felt Valencia had been a bit better defensively. He basically said that Matic was the only player he thought played well enough but sure he somehow singled out Shaw while also criticising 2 other players. 

'Every player can play bad but when you see "please mister, take me from the pitch", that is what I thought.'

It's not even about playing bad. He's saying Shaw was basically begging to be subbed. Every other full back at the club has put in a worse 45 minutes than Shaw did, without being subbed at half time.

He wasn't playing any worse than Darmian or Blind have, and Mourinho hasn't publicly criticised them. There is absolutely nothing stopping him treating Shaw the same as those two. If he doesn't like Shaw, he shouldn't play him. If he doesn't think he's good enough, he shouldn't play him. But sticking him on for one half, then taking him off, then criticising him, is completely unnecessary. Especially after saying in January that he couldn't see many better left backs than Shaw, before dropping him. Then saying he had a made a 'big effort' and would definitely be offered a new contract, before dropping him for two matches.

 

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I get Shaw is a likeable guy and Jose is very easy to dislike but to call a manager giving his assessment of a player bullying if it's negative is ludicrous. 

I don't like Shaw, at all.

 

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Should Jose answer direct questions about why he subbed a player with saying "sorry I can't answer that incase I am seen as a bully" 

No, and that's not what everyone has an issue with.

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Maybe he's harder on Luke because of the potential he sees in him, he's said in the past how good he thinks Luke could be - as others have said, maybe he's said this to him in person - but it's not working.

Personally I think he'd be better off lambasting others who really have been swinging the lead, but then I guess Luke doesn't have as powerful an entourage as Pogba.

I think it's a harsh way to do it, but I think there's every chance he's doing it to provoke a reaction from Luke - I can't say it makes me comfortable to this extent, but I honesty, even if it's brutal.

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Shaw being out of shape is one of the biggest myths in football. His willingness to stay & fight for his place at the club after the way Jose treated him last season, suggests he's actually quite strong mentally. He hasn't complained to the press or talked shit on social media, he's just continued working. Just yesterday there was news of him turning up to training this week, instead of fucking off on holiday during the international break.  

People like to bring up what past managers have said about him, but if you actually look those quotes up you'll see the comments weren't that bad. Regardless of what they said, they all trusted Luke enough to give him regular football, despite his age & "fitness concerns''. 

Nigel Adkins gave Shaw his debut at 16. At 17, in his first full season as a professional footballer, Adkins and (for the second half of the campaign) Pochettino, played Shaw in 25 Premier League games, 22 of which were starts.

Apparently Poch questioned Shaw's fitness and attitude in his book, yet he still gave 18 year old Luke a 5 year contract extension. He also played Luke in 35 Premier League games – all of which were starts – in his first full season as Southampton manager. 

Roy Hodgson included him in his World Cup squad...and it's safe to assume he would've taken him to the Euros had Shaw recovered earlier from his leg break. 

LVG questioned Luke's fitness at the start of his first season with us, but he was still happy to play the guy when he was available. Then at the start of 2015-16 he played Shaw for 90 minutes in every game, before that promising form was ruined by Hector Moreno's challenge. 

Then we have Jose, who has singled Shaw out for public criticism, subbed him off early, subbed him on too late, dropped him for weeks and completely assassinated his character. One manager has treated him like that, four other managers haven't. It doesn't matter if you rate Shaw or not, no United fan should be okay with a manager bullying & humiliating one of our players.  

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