dualtamac

Westworld (*SPOILERS*)

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On 11/01/2017 at 18:21, dualtamac said:

So maybe a question will kick things off...

Does Dolores show free will at the end by killing Ford or is she once again playing out the scenario she was meant to? If anyone actually gives their opinion, I'll also debate. ^^

There is no such thing as free will

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10 hours ago, lucretius said:

Just watched the first three episodes of the new series. As bad as I had feared. 

Why? I've loved it though less happy with episode three. It's all about a build-up to something big and I'm enjoying nearly everything about it.

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1 hour ago, dualtamac said:

Why? I've loved it though less happy with episode three. It's all about a build-up to something big and I'm enjoying nearly everything about it.

Episode 3 was the worst bit of of television I’ve seen for a long time.

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10 hours ago, dualtamac said:

Why? I've loved it though less happy with episode three. It's all about a build-up to something big and I'm enjoying nearly everything about it.

The major thing I was worried about season two was lots of generic soldiers vs hosts action. Far too much of that already, and none of it makes sense, even with context. The arc that worked so well in the first season was the slow burn, peeling away layers as narratives got replayed, filling in blanks with the split chronology. This time, it's all about the chaos, but it's really hard to pull that off without it feeling very Saturday-afternoon TV. Similar to the whole Dorne thing in GOT.

On a similar note, I think the samurai park could be really lame if it's handled badly, and what we saw of the Raj park suggests that it will be. I can just barely suspend my disbelief over how guns hurt hosts but not guests, but a katana? How does that even work? Where is this island with a huge lake in the middle, miles across, that can support terraforming? Once they have to start explaining things, they're already on the back foot.

The best parts of the first season were those anchored by the best actors - Hopkins and Knudsen especially. I don't rate Evan Rachel Wood, and she's been given a lot of essentially nonsensical cliched lines to deliver really woodenly. Some of my least favourite parts - Felix and Sylvester, for instance, are getting lots of screen time. There's lot of walking-around-corridors and killing security staff, which feels like filler, where the first season might have used this time for plot and character development.

Basically, I don't think a second season needed to be made, and I was worried at the time it would have a lazy, action vibe. The bits they've chosen to run with so far have been the weaker parts from the first season.

There are some good bits, and some questions to answer, which is why I'm still watching. Why is Luke Hemsworth alive? Is the Ghost Nation actually protecting humans? Does this mean Elsie is still alive? The Ghost Nation warrior who turned up at Meabh's old house looks very like the host at the first meeting with Logan. Is he the same?

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I don't necessarily mind a more action orientated season but it just has to be done with some care to get right - There's no subtlety to what they're doing at all right now. Episode 3 was a almost a no turning back point - Like with GOT in Season 5 it's tough to backtrack when you've fully committed to nonsense. 

I always felt the humans vs hosts would be a difficult conflict to realistically pull off given the human's access to modern technology and they've decided to have human's use ridiculous, suicidal tactics to compensate. The convenience of having the only three characters Maeve and Hector know bumping into them was comical and Armistice's inexplicable cartoonish entrance was cringeworthy. The other parks just don't carry the intrigue the writers seem to think they do and not sure what they'll offer beyond omg new enemies. 

The show still has a lot going for it. It's still a fantastic cast even without Hopkins and Ramin Djawadi's soundtrack is simply phenomenal but they need to tone down this nonsensical plot convenience. 

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That was more like it.

The guy playing James Delos gave a masterclass in that episode and his scenes with Simpson/Harris among the best the show has produced. Great sub-plot and great development for a character over one episode. A few more ridiculous chance encounters aside that was a huge, much needed improvement. 

No coincidence that the first great episode of the season comes without Dolores/Maeve - The preview for next week with Maeve holding a fucking Samurai sword is not promising. 

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On 14/05/2018 at 09:48, TFIA said:

That was more like it.

The guy playing James Delos gave a masterclass in that episode and his scenes with Simpson/Harris among the best the show has produced. Great sub-plot and great development for a character over one episode. A few more ridiculous chance encounters aside that was a huge, much needed improvement. 

No coincidence that the first great episode of the season comes without Dolores/Maeve - The preview for next week with Maeve holding a fucking Samurai sword is not promising. 

Peter Mullan is a great actor. He’s also a very good director.

Episode four is proof that they’ve been wasting everyone’s time with the Delores and Maeve plots. This episode was exactly the kind of thing that kept me interested in the  first series. They crammed more into an hour this week than in 13 episodes so far for those two. 

We could have had about ten minutes of each of them, cut out the pointless wandering around and cheap set pieces, and got loads more of what the series is actually good at.

 

 

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So, the bits not involving Maeve and Delores are still pretty good.

Far too many things make absolutely no sense, though. Crack mercenaries (with bizarre accents) able to drop in from helicopters at a moment's notice? Yet somehow unable to use helicopters or indeed modern tactics and decide to charge across open ground at an entrenched enemy with better range? How the fuck did they manage to hide a snowcapped stratovolcano out of sight of the mesa? At the kind of latitudes that would support arid desert and jungle, it would have to be 4000m, and that's being generous. Mt Fuji is lower than that, and it's visible nearly 100 miles away in Tokyo.

The Shogun World plot wasn't quite as bad as it might have been. It made some interesting points about metanarratives, for instance. But the whole Maeve finding her 'new voice' is beyond stupid.

Everything to do with the Delores storyline is awful.

Good to see more of the wonderful Katja Herbers, though.

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Beginning to see what you guys meant about Dolores' story but I still find all stories interesting because they will inevitably all be interlinked.

Maeve becoming God is weird too but I'll be patient. I enjoyed Shogun World. 

Still loving all these existential questions too (for example, I'm still not convinced that consciousness has been reached by all host protagonists, still think that some of their actions are programmed) and the everlasting life/uploading memories story. Really looking forward to seeing how that pans out.

Wh at intrigues me the most is William's "Game". So many theories, not sure what to think.

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Season one was a slow burner for me, but when it all came together, I loved it. As a standalone season, it was a fantastic philosophical work of art. 

Season two was painful. I couldn't even force myself to keep watching past episode 5. There was so much potential but ultimately, it was a shadow of the first season. This seems to be a recurring theme in television.

Fantastic soundtrack though.

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Everyone hates season 2. I enjoyed it but I really don't take it too seriously and never expected season 2 to match season 1. Season 2 has definitely gone a little wayward and the quality of the show has decreased. I still enjoy watching it though. 

There as few amazing episodes I thought. Episode 4 with James Delos was unbelievably good I thought. 

Few too many twists though.

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18 minutes ago, sam10ness said:

Everyone hates season 2. I enjoyed it but I really don't take it too seriously and never expected season 2 to match season 1. Season 2 has definitely gone a little wayward and the quality of the show has decreased. I still enjoy watching it though. 

There as few amazing episodes I thought. Episode 4 with James Delos was unbelievably good I thought. 

Few too many twists though.

See, I only watched it last month and avoided all discussions over the years for the sake of avoiding spoilers. But it's interesting to know that S2 was generally disliked by everyone.

I guess you'll be tuning into Season 3? It looks like they're spending more time outside of WestWorld, going from that trailer above. Which I suppose could be interesting.

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